E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Next one heading for the door, Barclays -

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I'm not talking about how you're trying to cope with this ***********. You got to do what you got to do.

I'm talking about people complaining that politicians are self-interested lying sacks of **** and that the disenfranchising political system needs to change, and then voting yet again for self-interested lying sacks of **** who do their hardest to make the political system more disenfranchising than it already was. And then when predictably things get worse it's all like: "Hey, not my fault man! It's those politicians who are all self-interested lying sacks of ****!". Well, duh. Stop voting for them, then!

How many people voted Brexit for "sovereignty" and "taking back control"? And how is that working out, predictably?

At some point you have to call insanity when you see it. At some point you stop feeling sorry for people's difficult lives because they are putting in a good solid effort to maintain their problems. Taking back control comes with taking ownership of one's decisions and the consequences. And here it is.

 

You're great at pointing out where everyone has gone wrong. Fair play to you but what was the alternative? You can vote for whomever stands for election, or you can abstain. You can vote on what they promise, what their track record is at that time but you can't know what they are going to vote in the future. You make out as if there were good and bad in the choice of politicians we could vote for, there was no good or bad there was a constant mediocre, the best out of a mediocre bunch is all we could really hope for. Across both sides of the commons we are seeing the results of that mediocrity. Labour are wholly inconsistent and are trying to appease the Labour party lines, Tories are divided to the point it's a joke, Lib Dem are lying scroates, greens couldn't win a one horse race. Point the finger by all means but at least let us know what we should be doing because I'm at a loss here!! Please don't make out that there was a sensible option for people to vote for, because there wasn't and there isn't.

So how do I take back control when that is the situation I face, how does every other voter? I couldn't stand for office, I couldn't afford it as an independent, so what now?

One other thing, I don't ask for sympathy nor do I expect it, for anything or any choice I make. Let's be clear on that. I get on with my life rather than wallow in some pity party.

 

In an ideal world true representation should work. We get a watered down version of that. Promises are made during elections, people vote according to their feelings on those promises. Then our politicians have carte blanche to basically ignore, deny or "amend" those promises. We can vote them out sure, but by then the damage may be done. So I'd like to see manifesto promises become legally contractual, where these politicians have to act on their promises if they are elected. No backing down and back peddling! If they don't, then they lose their seat and can't stand again.

 

That would be great if we actually had an electoral system that didn't favor self-interested lying sacks of ****, unfortunately we don't, we have a system that doesn't represent the people who vote equally and we have a system that doesn't know even know the meaning of compromise and consensus.

Not voting for lying sacks of **** only works when there's a good chance that someone who's not a lying sack of **** is going to win and that they maybe able to influence things.

EDIT:-

In a GE i would agree, in the referendum i wouldn't. The sensible option (IMO) would've been giving these insensible people as little control as possible.

 

It was the GE I was referring to, not the referendum. I should have stated that.

 

None of this is ever getting changed until the Chinese buy the remainder of the UK and institute "democracy" a-la China.

Even if the second referendum was run and turned out something obscenely unlikely like 80% for remain and 20% for leave, the debate would never end over whether we should be in or out. Much like us crashing out in a couple of months will fail to end the "we told you so" from whichever side turns out to be right (Which, I believe, is remain..).

All a second referendum would do is provide overpaid, inbred, toffs another thing to argue over in favour of their mate getting rich and giving them an absurdly well paid job as the office dog.

Short of every single politician being taken out and shot, and the existing government being replaced with a technocracy, I don't see a 'fix' in sight. IMO, of course, I've no idea if a technocracy would work either.

 

Cancel it.

The referendum was advisory. They took the advice and looked at leaving. Turns out it's a clusterfest. So, much like when local areas vote against fracking and the Government just allow it anyway, they should deem that leaving is also not in the 'Greater National Interest'.

 

It's got the word techno in it so it must be good, AI's come a long way in the last few years and it would be cool to have parliament filled with Boston Dynamics type contraptions.

 

If they sell tickets, I'm in!!

 

I do, but it'll take 35-50 years to fix it. The full solution is something I simply couldn't be arsed typing out right now, but think along the lines of using technology to reduce dependency on centralised systems.

 

Ah well, I'm pretty sure I'll be compost by then, so we're all stuck with the shite system we have :-(

 

That would involve politicians having spines - We both know those are whipped out in the first eight seconds of being a politician.

I'd vote for an AI over any currently running party, that's for damn sure.

I'd prefer it was done on the quiet. These wastes of oxygen have had enough limelight as it is IMO.

And, with the way democracy works, there's no way that'd get consistently worked on. Nine times out of ten it seems to me a party is elected in, and spend their first 2-3 years undoing what the previous party had been doing, then spend a year blaming their failure to do anything on the mess the other party made while the other parties do basically the same.

 

This is something that can, and has to be, done ground up...Those in power aren't going to relinquish said power for something so "ridiculous" as a more egalitarian society

 

The problem with egalitarianism is - people are bastards. And it doesn't take many of them bastarding it up to ruin the whole system.

the best you can do is try and design the system such that when bastards happen, they can't break things too badly.

 

You're just not belieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeving. If you believe you can do anything, win the lottery, fly, survive in the vacuum of space. It's just all those people not believing and sabotaging you that are stopping you I tell ya.....

 

Remove the ability for elected politicians to renege on their manifesto promises. If they make promises, make the system mean they have to keep those promises. If they make factually incorrect statements, penalise them, strike them off or something. It would cut out the guff and barefaced lies we're fed straight away! Politics is the only "profession" I know of where you can enter an office and make so many promises yet failing to deliver on them and you are still allowed to work in that office. Try that with a business and see how long it'd be before you were handed your P45. As long as politicians can get away with breaking promises they will continue doing so.

 

Very difficult to implement those rules since most of politics and life for that matter comes down to opinions not fact.

The best you could hope for is a system with a well educated electorate that draws conclusions from multiple sources of information.
Education is key and unfortunately the quality of that seems to be getting worse in Western democracy's.

 

I am literally stunned at that interview.

"No jobs will be lost because of Brexit. Jobs may be lost because of the uncertainty surrounding the debate about Brexit". Orwell would be proud, that's some first-rate doublethink/doublespeak.

 

And that's where the political system fails. We need to see it dealing in facts much more than opinions. I agree ignorance on the part of the electorate, whether through choice or circumstance, is also a massive problem. As it is though, even if you are well informed you are often faced with voting for tweedle dee or tweedle dum and as a last resort, to abstain.