E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

You were the one who started it by calling anyone who claimed that UKIP and Cameron were the only catalysts simplistic, maybe if you don't like people making assumptions and being personal you shouldn't be doing that yourself.

I know full well that you claim that you didn't vote but you've made it abundantly clear that you support leaving the EU, that you claim you didn't actually vote make little difference other than demonstrating how much of a hypocrite you are for not acting on your beliefs.

I've not refused to acknowledge anti EU sentiment, in fact I've said "Being under the surface is entirely different than being front and center", that "And yes our membership has been a topic of debate ever since we joined the EEC", i mean this whole conversation has been about anti EU sentiment.

The difference is you think because something is a sentiment, a topic of debate, bubbling under the surface or whatever you want to call it is the cause, it's not, it's the effect. You're seeing ripples in a pond and blaming it on other ripple.

And I'm not the only one, the reason people keep disagreeing with you on multiple forums is because your viewpoints are rarely valid, they often lack reason, are normally illogical, and no matter how many times people point that out you refuse to entertain the idea that maybe all those people are right and your wrong.

 

Can't resist!!

Corky, 2 things here. I'm not a liar and I am able to stand by my own convictions, choices and tenets. I DIDN'T vote leave because I DIDN'T know which way to vote. Accept it or not but please DON'T call me a liar! I'm NO hypocrite either. Simple enough for you??

Now as to whether I want us to leave the EU or not, I'm Euro Sceptic but that DOES NOT mean I think we will be better out of the EU. It means I'm sitting on the fence, as is my right and privilege. I would like to see us out of the EU but I know what that means realistically.

You have expressed a view point that Cameron, UKIP and Farage were the only players who brought about the referendum. I've disagreed and you didn't like that. If you're expecting someone to blow bubbles up yer arse you've got the wrong person pal!

I wanted to leave my prior post as the last one precisely because you are an arrogant debater, someone doesn't agree with you and you go on one! Get a flipping grip.

Now if you want to challenge the points I raised civilly, please do, otherwise count me out. You seem to take offense to the fact I hold your viewpoint to be silly, I expressed why and you haven't convinced me otherwise.

You are a piece of work, it must be brilliant being right ALL the time lol

EDIT:
Now to save me getting banned for letting you know how I really think of you, which would be silly and nonconstructive on my part, I'm going to block you Corky. I enjoy reading this thread every now and then but we clash every time we converse so I think it's for the best. Should you want to have some witty retort to that, don't waste the effort because I won't be seeing it.

 

Brexit debate going swimmingly then I see.

 

Sorry but at what point did i call you a liar? I may have implied that i personally don't believe you but that's a long way from saying you intentionally make false statements.

You are a hypocrite though as you have behaved in a way that suggests you have higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case, you claim you didn't vote in the referendum and yet you clearly support leaving the EU.

Case in point, you say you're a person who is opposed to increasing the powers of the European Union and then claim you're sitting on the fence while also claiming how you'd like to see us out of the EU.

This has nothing to do with what you or I's opinion is on whether we'll be better off out or in, it's about you holding three opposing opinions without realising the incongruity of those opinions, being opposed to increasing the powers of the European Union is completely understandable but that's not sitting on the fence and in turn neither of those are in keeping with wanting to leave.

Wanting to leave is not sitting on the fence and you can't oppose the increased powers of an organisation that you're no longer going to have anything to do with, it's why you keep getting told your viewpoint on the referendum are invalid, unreasonable, and illogical.

Let me put it in black & white, you say you want to leave so you are not sitting on the fence as you've taken a side, you say you're opposed to increasing the powers of the European Union but you can't do that without making your voice heard at the ballot box or from outside.

No i haven't, i said "Cameron basically adopted the policy of another party because he couldn't keep a lid on the Eurosceptics within his own party" and that was caused when "UKIP started gaining voter share". In case you need it spelling out it's implicit that by saying gained voter share that Cameron, UKIP and Farage were not the only players.

And contrary to what you say i appreciate it when someone disagrees with me, what i don't appreciate is when someone attempt to support that disagreement with fallacies of reason and logic while failing to read/listen to what someone's actually said/typed instead of their own interpretation of it.

Like I've said this has nothing to do with a disagreement or difference of opinion, it's that you're using illogical and unreasonable arguments, what you see as an exaggerated sense of someones importance or abilities is simply the facts disagreeing with you.

You've not raised any points, you started out by calling people simplistic and when challenged you took umbrage and started playing the victim card.

I've not taken offense that you hold a different viewpoint to me, it takes way more than that for me to take offense, I am however trying to bring your attention to how incongruent you viewpoint is and that like nearly every leave support that I've come across you too take umbrage, get angry, and throw insults when the facts and evidence contradict your viewpoint....that would be your brain desperately trying to defend itself against the cognitive dissonance you've created BTW.

I wouldn't know as I'm not right all the time, although it helps if when you base your thinking on reason, logic, fact, and evidence instead of gut feelings and emotions, you should try it sometime.

 

Before I clicked ignore on your profile, I noticed you'd written another post Corky, never bothered reading it because it'll just be in the same vein as ever. You're right because you are never wrong. I don't think, as opposed to you do....yada yada yada, same crap different day. You do seem to have a problem with letting things go, maybe Nexxo could help with that? Anyways, as much as I'd love to read the reply I can't.

 

Ignorance is bliss, A.

Somehow i don't think it's taken you over two hours from saying you're going to block me to actually clicking something, but of course you're not a liar and able to stand by your own convictions, choices and tenets.

 

Labour amendment to have a meaningful vote by 27th defeated by 16.

SNP amendment to extend A50 by at least 3 months now up.

 

'The house reiterates its support for the approach to leaving EU expressed by this House on 29th January' - defeated 303 to 258

PM's response? Don't know, she ain't even there.

 

Government motion to support approach of Maybot as well as both amendments defeated...

In other words:

With 1.5 months to go the government and parliament are no closer to agreeing on what they want, all going very well then.

 

Wasn't it her motion?

If so it's sort of funny that yet another motion she proposed has been defeated and she didn't even bother to turn up to vote for her own motion, it's like watching a slow-mo Benny hill episode with Mrs May running around chasing Brussels one moment and parliament the next.

And don't forget a second referendum is undemocratic but 2, 3, or even 4 votes in parliament is completely legitimate.

 

No: mirroring. Because Leavers have been flippant about incorrect news, all the time. Just look at BoJo for a graphic example.

 

In my day that would be met with "two wrongs don't make a right".

So, Nexxo. As a European living in the UK, with Brexit looking like it's going to result in a no deal scenario, are you honestly considering leaving the UK? Things are looking a lot peachier in the Netherlands, economically speaking. Do you have children? If so, what do they and your wife think about leaving the UK? Genuinely interested. I moved about from posting to posting in Germany and the UK when I was younger, being an army brat. I enjoyed the experience, but a lot didn't.

 

While I'm not Nexxo, I thought I'd share my thoughts on my family if you're interested.

If we find my gran has indefinite leave to remain, or permanent residency, or can apply to be settled and not be rejected, I imagine we'll stay if things don't go to ****.

If on the other my gran doesn't get to stay, she'll have to go back to Italy. Now in all honesty, I know my mum won't want to move there, but I suspect she will end up changing her mind - where we live is in the mountains so you need a car idealy, my gran doesn't drive and the nearest town is 11kM away and she's no longer a spring chick able to walk there and back. So my mum will probably, begrudgingly, decide to move. My dad will retire and go with her as he's been wanting to do that for a while, I still live with them due to issues ranging from lack of job, anxiety, depression and being generally withdrawn - so i'll go with them too - not that I want to.

My sister probably won't want to move with her family - however, her leave voting husband has suggested multiple times that they should move Italy since the refferendum, and yes he still backs leave. That said, working for a bank in the City, which she knows is moving roles abroad, and she strongly suspects they'll be getting rid of her team, I think she'll take it as a get out of banking card. So she'll then need to decide what she wants to do, and she'll probably decide that they may as well move to Italy. But who knows.

All in all, strong and stable.

 

My partner is one of many who has lived and worked here for many years, contributing a huge amount to the UK through tax, her work and just by being her.

Now my country is turning around and telling her to register to stay or we'll kick her out. It may not sound like much but it's the principle.

At one point in time I believed my country had a level of honour and decency, I see very little of that around at the moment and it saddens me.

 

Adding to the above, when you're seeing someone from an EU country that has basically been given a date to get out of apply for an excruciatingly expensive visa with no guarantee of being accepted for however many years it takes to apply for citizenship. With increasing reports in various news outlets of hate crimes targeting EU citizens. Dickheads in public who have been emboldened by this marginal "victory" over economic, culture blending, common sense.

All for a country that 52% of the voting populace have said doesn't want foreigners.

It's not worth it. The UK doesn't feel like home anymore. It feels like a place with more ass-backwards jingoists who think we're in 1910 and not the 21st century than any sane country should have.

So we left.

 

I would, the good lady isn't so keen.

That may change.

 

Pure f***ing comedy gold:

twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1096104144316874752

Wait until 2 (or 1) days before the cliff edge and then do what?

Try to pass a vote to rule out a no deal exit? (besides it being hard to introduce a legally binding one, such a motion could not force MPs to vote for the May WA and since there is no alternative WA up for approval...)
Try for like the 5th time to get the extremely unpopular May WA approved?
Try for an extension of Article 50? That was voted down today by over 200 votes..
Try to cancel the whole brexit show? (except there is no majority for that)
Try for a 2nd ref or GE? No time (and no majority for either one)

 

I counter with "Don't dish it out if you can't take it."

I am leaving, no doubt about it. The question is just when.

I am what is called in the NHS (ironically) a "unicorn": someone who was lucky enough to obtain Mental Health Officer status before it was abolished in 1995. This means that I can retire without penalty at 55, and also that after 20 years of mental health service every additional year counts as two pension years towards a final salary pension. So I can bail in 2 years; I may stick around for 2 more to clock up extra points. Might as well ride the wave as long as I can.

My British wife is very keen to leave. Being married to an EU citizen she acquires all the rights of one (because that's how we roll in the EU), so no problem there. We have no children. We plan to retire in France: buy a farmhouse with some land (ridiculously cheap by UK standards), grow some veg, keep bees and chickens, forage and cook and bake and distil my own moonshine and turn the barn into a big workshop for silversmithing, woodwork, metalwork. Perhaps some glass work too. That's my Brexit plan.

 

Sounds idyllic! Did you always intend to do that or has Brexit pushed you into that? Our Polish next door neighbours are divided. The wife would go back to Poland in a flash but the husband is happy. They decided to stay though because their three kids are rooted here. The wife had a professional career back in Poland, she now works for the Next warehouse in our town. I think they've experienced a few dickheads passing unwanted comments and that didn't help either.