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E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by TheBlackSwordsMan, 22 Feb 2016.

  1. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    Great, the potential for another floppy haired American born to have more power than they have earned.

    Edit: Hancock withdraws.

    Edit: Edit: That just sounds very wrong.
     
    Last edited: 14 Jun 2019
  2. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    No need to, just move to Scotland before he causes IndyRef2 by saying more stupid sh*t about Scots.
     
  3. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    I must confess, I do have a morbid curioisty as to what he'd do as PM. Not enough to want it to happen, but it's definitely there.
     
  4. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    He doesn't need to become PM for that, we all know what he would do:
    Lie through his teeth about why he could not deliver the "Perfect Brexit that leavers voted for":naughty:


    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...ry-leadership-contest-vote-Conservative-Party
     
  5. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    His talk without power is one thing - what would he actually do? He can say he'll ice the Brexit turd in unicorns and butterflies all he wants when he has no real chance to do anything, but if he gets the power to do something I wonder just how much of his bluster will fall apart.

    Basically I'm curious how Donald Trumpian he's going to get.
     
  6. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Johnson's self-serving cowardice might be his only redeeming feature wrt brexit...

    He sees himself and/or wants to be seen as Churchill II, ****ing the country up by crashing out sans deal will not yield the glorious epitaphs he so yearns for.
    He also won;t chance bringing the govt down via a VoNC/a GE as he's not in the safest of seats [iirc he has the smallest majority of any of the hopefuls].
     
  7. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to his "Brexit Plan" all of it will fall apart very quickly, most damaging to him will be the time aspect.
    Because even if he actually managed to convince the EU to allow new negotiations for the purpose of cherry picking Unicorn flavours he would then have to explain to leavers why he is begging the EU for an extension of a year (or more).

    And since that would be political suicide he will be left with the option of trying to box the May WA through Parliament or go full Raab / Loathsome, the former would be hard work with questionable results, the latter he can "justify" by telling even more porkies than he usually does.
     
  8. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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  9. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    What's with the televised debates between the hopeful leaders of the Conservative party? It's not like the general public are making a decision on who's going to lead the country though this turbulent time so is it only directed at the 100-150k party members, that's like 0.02% or so of the UK population, isn't it?
     
  10. VipersGratitude

    VipersGratitude Well-Known Member

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    It keeps people invested in the theatre of democracy while Capitalists, aka The Masters of the Universe, make all the truly important decisions
     
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  11. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    IDK it seems more like sycophancy to me.
     
  12. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Because it is a PR exercise ahead of the basically inevitable GE?
     
  13. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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  14. VipersGratitude

    VipersGratitude Well-Known Member

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    Is it sycophancy, on behalf of the BBC, or statecraft on behalf of the ruling class? A bit of both?

    Globally economic inequality is increasing, and inequality negatively impacts every aspect of society. The outcome of Brexit will only determine the pace of at which that inequality increases. Hard or slow, we're all ****ed either way. Like the Conservative leadership debates Brexit is a distraction that, when viewed from afar, is ultimately inconsequential just like the winner of the leadership contest. It is a spectacle, an event pitting obviously unqualified, self-deluding, bumbling fools against each other. They are meant to be the cream of the crop, but they patently are not - Where are the cream of the crop then if not in politics? The answer is the economic sphere. It is a sphere where you can exert influence on a global scale, rather than a small island with almost zero exploitable resources other than electoral stupidity.

    This is Late-Stage Capitalism, where the system is now feeding off the host, consuming Democracy. The banks were bailed out with the lives of the sick and disabled; Both the welfare and health services are increasingly administered by multinational private interests. We can't stop this, but we can at least recognise it for what it is - a sideshow that distracts from finding true lasting solutions for when it all finally collapses in on itself.
     
    Last edited: 16 Jun 2019
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  15. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Agree with a but...

    Us little guys can do something to ease the pain:
    1: Don't be an a**hole to people in everyday life
    2: Don't vote for Populists peddling easy answers

    That way we at least increase the chance of the transition into whatever comes next being somewhat peaceful.
     
  16. VipersGratitude

    VipersGratitude Well-Known Member

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    Whatever comes next...

    Technology defines everything - Just as a historian who will chart human history in technological terms - Stone Age, Bronze Age, Iron Age, etc.

    The Industrial Age of the late 19th and 20th centuries gave rise to completely centralised social systems. Today we live in cities; Our food, water, energy, health, social safety nets are all centrally administered. Every single thing we need, as human beings, to survive is in the hands of corporations or governments (for the meantime).

    Technology born of the industrial age, however, allows us to render the need for many of these centralised systems obsolete. Renewable energy generation, automated farming, water purification all become increasingly cost-effective with each passing day. The next stage could be called Techno-Agrarianism, which sounds radical, but is actually the norm. It is actually the last few hundred years that are aberrant. No government will ever provide this solution because it removes the requirement for their social control systems, and their ability to exploit the wealth-generating labour pool. The next stage is truly decentralising the means of production.
     
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  17. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    If we attempted anything like that it would probably end with Monsanto lobbying John Bolton to bomb your garden because the carrots have rounded corners.

    Slight hyperbole in there, but...

    While I don't disagree that the world will eventually change radically compared to what it is now, I reckon there is going to be a whole bunch of small steps in between including a bunch of failed experiments before we eventually arrive at something that works and is sustainable, because as long as we can be squeezed to produce another band aid to patch the current leaking system that is all that will happen with any radical changes kicked down the road.
     
  18. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    Being something of a pessemist, I don't see the world changing for the better. I see the slow fall of government, but replaced with corporations.

    Ever read Snow Crash? That's what I expect to happen with regards to corporations and governments.

    Although given a lot of the political choices at the moment, that almost seems preferable.
     
  19. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Then control will be centralised on who has the materials. China already does this to an extent with the supply of rare-earth metals...
     
  20. VipersGratitude

    VipersGratitude Well-Known Member

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    I think it'll happen much quicker due to the ticking clock of climate change. Once coastal populations begin to be displaced radical change will be the only option. The market fundamentally cannot address that problem, so the easily-affordable, easily-distributed, easily-replicable open-source model of self-sustainability will skyrocket.

    China tried that in 2010, and it didn't work because rare-earths aren't particularly rare.
     

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