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E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by TheBlackSwordsMan, 22 Feb 2016.

  1. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    And predictably scarecrow hair won the leadership vote, 92k vs 46k or about 66%, now we can watch as he assembles his little cabinet of horrors, makes some more impossible promises before he gets stabbed in the back by his own party before the year is out.
     
  2. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    He still needs to command the confidence of the house, it's technically possible that he won't become PM....I'm a dreamer. :)
     
  3. damien c

    damien c Mad FPS Gamer

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    Seeing a lot of stuff on Twitter etc about "My life is ruined Boris is the PM" and "We all need to protest to stop this buffoon getting in power".

    The guy has not even done the job and people are screaming for him to be fired before he even starts.

    Then you have the spineless coward traitorous Commissar Corbynov wanting a general election, I am sorry Mr Corbyn but I will never vote for someone who has supported and probably still supports the IRA and iirc appears to not have an issue with "ISIS", and wants to get rid of the army and the nuclear deterrent.

    I know I am probably going to get people who disagree with the above but the simple fact is, Boris is going to be the PM and unless you have the ability to do anything about it there is nothing you can do but accept it and move forward the best you can.
     
  4. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    The Opposition is useless and there's a minority Government in a hung Parliament at one of the trickiest points in our history.

    Difficult to see the positives to be honest.
     
  5. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Also, iirc, he's been elected leader of the Conservative Party... he is still, technically, not yet PM.
     
  6. damien c

    damien c Mad FPS Gamer

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    Very true for some it is hard to see any positives and for some what they think are positives "could" turn out to be negatives the same can be said for things people see as negatives they could turn out to be positives.

    Honestly I don't think that we will truly know whether leaving is a good or bad idea until we have left and see what happens after 12 months to 2 years.
     
  7. edzieba

    edzieba Virtual Realist

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    Maybe ease off on the Daily Mail there.
     
  8. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    True, until then it's hypothetical.

    If the Leave campaign had approached with a well thought out unified plan I would happily go through the pros/cons.

    As it is the current plan is no deal, that's not a plan and nothing that was advocated before the vote.
     
  9. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Honestly, I don't think that we will truly know whether jumping off the Empire State Building without a parachute is a good or bad idea until we have jumped and see what happens after we hit the ground. I mean, all the experts say we're going to turn into raspberry jam, but what do experts know? A guy who owns a pavement cleaning company told me it was in my best interest, and that's good enough for me!
     
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  10. damien c

    damien c Mad FPS Gamer

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    I don't read the Daily Fail, I don't read newspapers at all.
     
  11. damien c

    damien c Mad FPS Gamer

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    I am sorry but that to me is a pointless and stupid comment about the empire state building, we know how that would end unless of course you jump from less than the height of the first floor.

    There are experts for "Leave" that contradict the experts for "Remain" and vice versa the problem is it's hard to judge and believe what they say when most are only interested in either there own financial or political gain.

    I had a former work colleague who ran a Magic business and 2 days after the vote he closed the business down because he said it was going to cost him £2k a year more for his supplies, he didn't even wait to see if it was actually going to cost more he just assumed, he sold off all of his stock and made a loss on it all, this was despite him earning over £25k a year from it and ran it from his house he only worked the job that I worked with him for something to pass the time during the day.

    I stopped talking to him because I got sick of all the comments about how people had ruined his career and his life by voting to leave and that is the typical attitude I see from people, I have a friend who came hear from South Africa, he is a really good bloke but he has done nothing for the last 2 years but slag off everyone who voted to leave because they ruined his life because it might cost him more to fly to South Africa to see his parents.

    I see points from both sides about leaving, yes there will be a change to the country and yes there "Might" be some uncomfortable times ahead but I hardly think we are all going to be forced to live on the streets with no money, food, clothing, water, medicines etc like some people would have us believe and I don't see us all suddenly having more money etc as some would also have us believe.

    It doesn't matter what happens though, if we all suffer when we leave then those who voted leave will be brandished as fools and the destroyers of the country and if we survive and end up better off for it then those who voted leave will be brandished as lucky fools who nearly ruined the country.

    The problem these days is that most people are not interested in anything but claiming the world is out to get them and being a victim, leaving the EU could be good or bad but most people will see it as bad regardless because it means they can claim to be a victim of racist's which is what most people who voted leave are called.
     
  12. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Like who? James Dyson, who said Brexit would be wonderful for British businesses then cocked off to Singapore at the first opportunity? Tim Martin, who employs 3,500 migrant workers and whose claims of Brexit leading to lower prices and higher wages have been roundly debunked? Professor Patrick Minford, whose projections of a Brexit economic boom have been described as "the worst sort of voodoo economics" and who stated on the record that the UK car, steel, and coal industries would have to be "run down"?

    Meanwhile, on the other side of the table, you've got... Well, let me just borrow Wikipedia's handy summary:

     
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  13. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Considering that the rabble currently occupying Westminster hasn't managed to present any credible plan for leaving in the years since the vote (much less before it) do you really think they'll be capable of producing a single upside to Brexit?
    And it ain't like the opposition is any better, Corbyn was the one who wanted to trigger Article 50 the day after the referendum without any plan.
     
  14. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    There are? In the time leading up to the referendum and in the 3 years since I've not read or seen a single "expert" who contradicted anything, there's the expert who the ERG commissioned but Minford's report has received condemnation from his peers for its lack of academic rigor, misleading and often out-right false claims and omissions.

    Edit: I should read all the post before replying shouldn't I, Mr H did a much better job. :)
     
  15. damien c

    damien c Mad FPS Gamer

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    I agree it's difficult to find the so called "Experts for the leave campaign" but as Gareth has posted, there were people who said Brexit would be good and proceeded to do a runner at the first chance they got, and as I said it's hard to trust any of them because they are not interested in what's best for the country they are only interested in what will get them the most money or political gain.

    Personally I don't believe most things that come out of a politicians mouth or so called experts because they all have something to gain from spouting nonsense, yes some tell the truth and give evidence to back it up but most just spout stuff to get people talking about them or to try and gain something from it.

    Either way we are in the situation of having to wait and see what happens if the country falls apart it falls apart, we will rebuild and move forward which will be difficult but we will do it but if the country gets better and wealthier etc then we all should be happy but as I have said there will still be those who see it as a failure.

    No side will ever win because people won't admit they are wrong.


    True no one thought about putting a plan together before triggering Artcle 50, no one seemed to think about putting people in charge of the deal who are use to making such important deals instead iirc we got people arranging the deal who had never done anything like that in any form, I don't know though because quite frankly I have tended to stay away from politics because it just annoys me how so many self serving criminals can get away with what they do, and since most politicians are saying 1 thing and then doing another it's little wonder that most people in the country are loosing faith in them.

    I won't be voting in the next General Election because I honestly don't think any of them should be in power, I think they should all be sacked and start fresh with people from the real world not the people who grew up with a silver spoon in there mouths and because they went the to right school they get ahead of other people who would be better at the job.

    I have said it before and I will say it again, if Elon Musk was to open the doors to just anyone to go to Mars I would be camping out, waiting for the doors to open and say "so long earth, enjoy destroying yourselves" even if there was a high chance of dieing or never returning to earth, because it would have to be better than living hear with this whole circus act that we have in power between all the different countries, seriously to me it's almost a game of chicken "who's gonna press the red button first?"
     
  16. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    This whole no-deal guff is nonsense anyway.

    Leave not agreeing anything, before there's any talk of a trade deal with our biggest, current, trading partner there'll be no discussions until the border, the monies owed, citizens rights and so on are sorted out.

    So, exactly the stalemate we have now in UK politics except we'll be in a much weaker position.

    So, give up the control we have and hand it over to Trump? Gods help us.
     
  17. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Look at the alternatives:

    1: BoJo tries to box the May WA through Parliament (that would be a tough sell considering Parliament rejected it three times and he resigned over the Chequers "plan" it is based on).
    2: Renegotiate, good luck with that... not only would the EU have to agree to it, selling the idea of moar delays would be rather tricky as well, plus we have no plan (and as such no idea what to ask for during a hypothetical renegotiation).
    3: Abdicate responsibility and go for a 2nd ref? First of all there is no time for that without further extensions, plus Parliament would have to agree with itself what the options should be.
    4: Remain? Parliament rejected that heavily in the indicative votes they had a couple months ago.

    Yet among those 4 option he will have to choose or No deal is the only option.
     
  18. MLyons

    MLyons Half dev, Half doge. Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Yet our current government gets touchy feely with the DUP (beats little kids like some of the gov to be fair) and will happily arm Saudi Arabia. I'd also like to point out that ISIS were first armed by the British and US.
     
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  19. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    What i mean is it's a false 'option' - we'll still be in limbo, just without trade until we sort out the issues.

    When the guy hold up a kipper, blames EU regs, when they're actually UK regs alone, i don't hold out much hope.
     
  20. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    If Doris doesn't magically succeed at something other than carrying on the current stalemate then the knives will come out much faster than they did for May.
    Yet since magic doesn't exist he'll inevitably run right into said knives and what will it be then? Another Tory leadership contest or a GE? Not like either one would fix the mess.
     

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