1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by TheBlackSwordsMan, 22 Feb 2016.

  1. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,349
    Likes Received:
    331
    This is fine, nothing to see here. ;)

    For those who can't get past the paywall...
    [​IMG]
     
  2. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

    Joined:
    25 Mar 2009
    Posts:
    14,183
    Likes Received:
    1,690
    Didn't Gordon Brown sell off a chunk of gold for euros a good while back?
     
  3. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2010
    Posts:
    5,177
    Likes Received:
    412
    Yep, around the millenium he sold off a bunch of gold for foreign currency, can't find details on how much of that was euros though.
     
  4. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

    Joined:
    23 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    11,519
    Likes Received:
    1,440
    The problem was he he broadcast to the world he was about to do it... so the price tanked right before the sale.
     
  5. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,349
    Likes Received:
    331
    Wasn't that a legal requirement though.
     
  6. boiled_elephant

    boiled_elephant Whitelist Bit-Tech in your adblock!

    Joined:
    14 Jul 2004
    Posts:
    5,935
    Likes Received:
    435
    Hey I just got back after a couple of years off Bit-Tech, so did we decide if we should leave the EU or not?
     
    Xlog, MLyons and edzieba like this.
  7. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2010
    Posts:
    5,177
    Likes Received:
    412
    According to the fall guy the Tories have currently installed in No 10?
    We will leave do or die on 31st Oct 2019.

    According to everyone else?
    Your guess is as a good as mine: Maybe we will stay, maybe we will leave after a transition phase, maybe we will crash out on "insert whatever date you like", maybe something else happens...
     
  8. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    33,626
    Likes Received:
    1,275
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 20 Aug 2019
  9. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

    Joined:
    25 Mar 2009
    Posts:
    14,183
    Likes Received:
    1,690
     
  10. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2010
    Posts:
    5,177
    Likes Received:
    412
    Corky42 and adidan like this.
  11. damien c

    damien c Mad FPS Gamer

    Joined:
    31 Aug 2010
    Posts:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    100
    I don't know why the MP's don't just come out and say what most people know to be true "we want as many referendums until we get the result we want"
     
  12. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2010
    Posts:
    5,177
    Likes Received:
    412
    1: They left it far too late for that.
    2: They would actually need to agree among themselves what the options in a hypothetical 2nd ref would be.
    3: Thanks to Parliament having spent 3 years saying no to everything there would be a lot of protest votes.
     
  13. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    12,693
    Likes Received:
    1,967
    There are a lot of people working on that principle, sadly - on both sides of the fence. There are those who voted Leave and want the number of referenda to be one, because they already got the result they wanted (though, given we were supposed to have left already, not necessarily the outcome); there are those who voted Remain and want the number of referenda to be more than one, because they didn't get the result they wanted.

    There are a lot more, though, who want the number of referenda to be more than one because the first is mired in illegality. If it had been a binding referendum, it would already have been rejected and rerun; the only reason it stands is because it was specifically a non-binding advisory referendum, but is being treated as having bound the government because ???. For them, it's not about getting the result they want; it's about getting a result that is legitimate, whether that means Leave or Remain.

    (There are those on the Leave side who respond to the funding part of the illegalities surrounding the first referendum with "but her emails^W^Wthe government's Remain leaflets" without apparently understanding that the fact both sides apparently broke the rules is more reason to have another referendum that actually follows said rules, not less. You don't let a bank robber keep the cash and get off scott-free 'cos a second bank robber also stole some cash, do you?)

    'course, there are those on the Leave side of the fence who were very clear that they would have demanded another referendum if the result had been Remain. Isn't that right, Nige? Then there was Jake, who thought a second referendum after negotiations to allow the public to vote on the terms of the exit would be a fantastic idea (right up until the polls suggested the answer would be "let's not bloody leave," at which point he performed a dramatic yet unsurprising volte-face.)

    TL;DR: No.
     
    edzieba and Corky42 like this.
  14. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

    Joined:
    23 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    11,519
    Likes Received:
    1,440
    excrement, turbine, intersect -

     
  15. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2010
    Posts:
    5,177
    Likes Received:
    412
    Doris on 15th Oct...

    To MPs:
    "Do you want to avoid No deal? You have one option: Vote for the WA you rejected 3 times"
    To the public:
    "I'm the saviour who both avoided No Deal and delivered Brexit, remember that at the Doris v Allotment Hobo GE"
     
  16. damien c

    damien c Mad FPS Gamer

    Joined:
    31 Aug 2010
    Posts:
    2,737
    Likes Received:
    100
    Yep the problem is there will be people who say there should be another vote and as many as it takes till a "Remain" vote wins, and there will be those who say if there is another one and "Remain" is the winning outcome that it should be voted on again and again until "Leave" is the winning option.

    For me if there was another vote, I probably would not vote because of what I will type below because I wouldn't feel right in voting for something that may not affect me after a certain amount of time.

    IF there was another vote and the result was that we were to remain in the EU, then I would accept it and move on, not because there would be basically nothing I could do about it but because that is what the people voted for.

    I have been doing alot of thinking lately about my life and the situation I am in, and to be honest I have worked it out that I can pay off all of my debts within the next 2 years which I think would be easily achievable if I just stick to a plan and do it, then I should be able to start putting anything from £500 to £1000 per month a way and once I have saved for around 2 or 3 years dependent on the amount I can put a side each month, then sell all of my stuff such as pc, xbox car etc etc, I should have anything between £22K to £40K which I can use to support myself in moving to America or somewhere else maybe Canada until I found a job because quite honestly I need a change of location, lifestyle, employment etc etc and I am not going to get that change in the UK.

    I may to make sure I can achieve my goal look and see if there are any companies that offer the ability to take X amount of my money each month and split it between all of my bills similar to a debt management plan but without it being a debt management plan, and then once I have paid everything off still take that money but put it in to a savings account for me, so I stick to my goal and then once I reach a certain level I can basically get all of it and go do what I want to do.
     
  17. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    33,626
    Likes Received:
    1,275
    You are misunderstanding what it means for an MP to be a "representative" of their constituents. That doesn't mean they have to do what the constituents tell them to --in that case they would be delegates, not representatives. Parliament is sovereign --ultimately it gets to call the shots, not the people. Even the PM's power derives from parliament.

    This also means that referendums are by definition advisory unless explicitly passed as binding. The unilateral decision by the PM to promise to enact it is not enough --again, his power derives from parliament; only parliament can make that call (BTW the 2015 EU Referendum Bill explicitly states that the referendum was advisory; during its debate it was explicitly stated on two separate occasions that it was advisory, and the High Court confirmed it was advisory). Add to this that successive governments cannot be bound by decisions made by previous governments, and Cameron's promise to enact the referendum did not only lack constitutional authority and legitimacy, it also walked away when he did.

    Check up what Burke and Churchill have to say about the topic:

    And:
    Now, onto the mandate. Vote Leave explicitly promised in its campaign that:
    So the only mandate that was arguably given is to leave the EU with a deal. Anything else does not meet the promise made by Vote Leave that formed the basis on which voters made their decision. There is, technically, no mandate for leaving without a deal.
     
    edzieba and damien c like this.
  18. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    12,693
    Likes Received:
    1,967
    And they should all be ignored, because that's not how voting works.

    Which isn't to say there aren't reasons to have a second, proper, not-mired-in-illegality, would-actually-stand-if-binding referendum on the topic. Like "maybe we do it without the illegal campaigning this time" reasons. (Not that it's an ideal scenario, 'cos if the illegal campaigning already convinced a given voter that the EU is the devil/literally God (delete as politically appropriate) then legal campaigning is going to struggle to convince 'em otherwise.)
    If there was another vote which was carried out in accordance with electoral law, I'd accept the result regardless of what it was. I might not like the result, but I'd accept it. Hell, I accepted the first result - without liking it, and while firmly believing it was a really really bad idea - until it turned out it was illegitimate.
     
    edzieba and damien c like this.
  19. Byron C

    Byron C No liability accepted as a result of this post

    Joined:
    12 Apr 2002
    Posts:
    5,596
    Likes Received:
    720
    Frankly, I am one of the people who will repeatedly clamour for as many referendums, bills, motions, etc as it takes for us to revoke article 50. Not to delay Brexit, not to have some sort of EEA-style agreement, not to remain part of the customs union - to revoke the whole damn thing. This is a stupid and short-sighted idea fed by decades of spin, outright lies, and vastly wealthy people who stand to earn even more money than they or their children could ever hope to spend in their lifetimes.

    I am done with debating merit. There is no debate to be had because there is no merit.

    As for Boris Johnson, I repeat what I posted on Farcebook when he won the leadership contest:

    Use the man's full name: Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson. He isn't Boris, or BoJo, or Bozo. He isn't a lovable buffoon or a cartoonish figure.

    Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson was born into wealth. He is a old Etonian and went to Oxford. He is the very definition of wealth, privilege, and 'the establishment'. He is a coldly calculating man who is only interested in furthering his political career.
     
  20. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

    Joined:
    23 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    11,519
    Likes Received:
    1,440
    ...you forgot American tax exile [he only surrendered his american citizenship when the IRS came a-knocking].
     
    Byron C likes this.

Share This Page