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E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by TheBlackSwordsMan, 22 Feb 2016.

  1. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    You only seem to be looking at the last few days/weeks, i was talking about the last 3+ years.

    It seems to me May may have known the ERG wanted to throw NI to the wolves, she may have said no PM would ever agree to what the EU initially proposed as a veiled warning to Boris and the ERG not to push their luck.
    I suspect you maybe underestimating Boris, being PM is just a means to an end for him and his fellow ERG members, their ultimate goal is to turn the UK into an anarcho-capitalist society, JRM's dad pretty much wrote their manifesto.
     
  2. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    TBH I think you're overestimating Johnson... all he wants is to be in the history books and have statues made of him, he wants to be remembered the way churchill is/was. You may argue that he doesn't care how he's remembered, just as long as he is, but ultimately he's playing Churchill fancy dress and wants to be portrayed the Johnson himself portrayed Churchill in his book [never mind that Johnson's book is, by most accounts, laughably bollocks].

    For JRM et al and the disaster capitalism, henge fund type crowd, Johnson is the means to an end, he's the useful idiot that gets them what they want.
     
    Nexxo likes this.
  3. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Oh I'm denying that he wants to be remembered, however people don't write books and make statues of PM's just for being PM's, they do that when they've done something noteworthy and simply taking the UK out of the EU is just not that noteworthy.

    Yes he idealizes Churchill but he also idealizes Thacher and seeing as there's not a world war to win he'll settle for transforming UK society into what he believes will be a better place, much like he and many others believe Thatcher did, only this time around he wants to go further than she ever could or dared to.
     
  4. Byron C

    Byron C No liability accepted as a result of this post

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    It's ironic then that he expelled Winston Churchill's grandson from the party.
     
  5. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    Boris never expected Leave to win. It was just a means to an end: to become "king of the world". He doesn't have a particular vision beyond that. He just wants to be top boy. He really is that shallow.

    To the ERG he is just a useful idiot.
    Eminently predictable. There can't be two alphas in the same pack.
     
  6. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    That may well have been true 3 odd years ago but things have changed since then, he's gone from OMG what did i do too OMG i can really make a name for myself here.

    The enthusiasm he shows over leaving the EU doesn't come from nowhere, like most fanatics he's convinced himself that if he can make the world conform to his ideals everything will be better, there will be sunny upland for everyone, and he wants to be the person who goes down in history as creating what he see as a better UK.
     
  7. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    That is true, but don't mistake that for a coherent vision. He is just making it up as he goes along. He is going to be a most reactive PM.
     
  8. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    It would be funny, in a bad way, if this deal got through parliament what with constantly being told a 2nd referendum would be undemocratic, because remind me again when the country got to decide on our current PM.
     
  9. GeorgeStorm

    GeorgeStorm Aggressive PC Builder

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    I thought the reasoning that kind of made sense was because we don't vote for people we vote for parties unlike in America where they vote for people? (politics is not something I pay any attention to so I could be way off haha)
     
  10. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Yea, no, totally.

    I was being facetious, sorry i should have included an emote. :)
     
  11. wolfticket

    wolfticket Downwind from the bloodhounds

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    They're going to pass the deal not because it good for the country (both sides have at various stages and in various ways admitted as much), but because they're simply too tired and worn out by the pandora's box of self inflicted BS they (and we) opened. It's pathetic and I hope at some point down the line a new generation put it right.
     
  12. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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  13. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Allegedly there will be 10 Labour MPs topping up the Tory vote...

     
  14. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Also the sheer number of MPs from both parties who said 'We'll vote for it because Boris assured us that...'

    ...****ing idiots. You only have to look at the DUP to see what those assurances are worth.
     
  15. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    If the ERG don't vote for his deal are they going to have the whip removed?
     
  16. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Probably not, one because... well y'know... and two because it looks like most of them will vote for it.

    Likewise i doubt any labour mps' whips are in jeopardy.
     
  17. loftie

    loftie Well-Known Member

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    This means there's a year long transition period before no deal right?
     
  18. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    That's what's Boris is telling the ERG at least.
     
  19. loftie

    loftie Well-Known Member

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    Phew, enough time to stockpile lube

    Edit: It amuses me that people seem to think this is the end of brexit. There's another year of pretending to get a trade agreement with the eu, then we've got the rest of the planet lining up to walk all over us.
     
  20. Byron C

    Byron C No liability accepted as a result of this post

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    Well... yes and no. We don't directly vote for who we want to be "leader" of the country; we vote for local representatives, and the leader of the party with the most elected representatives becomes the leader of the country.

    However... Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson was made prime minister off the back of an electorate comprised of 180,000 people (Tory party membership). That means that he became leader of this country in a vote where only 0.26% of the UK population was even eligible to take part. But that's the total population of the UK, let's compare the Tory party membership to the number total number of parliamentary electors in the UK. Oh wait, that doesn't get any better: our current prime minister became prime minister on the back of an electorate that represents 0.39% of the people in the UK who are eligible to vote. It gets even worse if you compare the number of people who actually voted for him to become party leader (and by extension prime minister), because only 92,153 Tory party members voted for him to become party leader. Against a total of 45,775,800 parliamentary electors.

    In that light, this:

    ...ceases to be a facetious statement.

    To play devil's advocate, he has been calling for a general election to be held. But he's proven to be so untrustworthy and duplicitous that the opposition are having to do everything they can to force him to respect the sovereignty of parliament and ensure he actually obeys the law. The fact that the supreme court had to intervene and void an unlawful prorogation is frankly bonkers. I'm pretty sure that the last time there was such flagrant abuse of power we had a nasty little civil war and ended up beheading a king.
     

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