E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Didn't watch your video as I don't take video news, but what we have here is a representative democracy. We elect mps, a government formed of whatever party or parties can hold a majority and they do stuff like negotiate treaties and so on. It is not perfect for sure but I will borrow Churchill's words

"democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…"

If not this, what else?

 

I've always liked dictatorship myself, unfortunately human nature leads to them being a total disaster.

 

I hate to tell you they already do, it's part of being an interconnected world and that won't change in or out of the EU.

We adjust our domestic politics and lawmaking in order to trade with other nations, to comply with those annoying human rights, to comply with out international obligations on climate change and all those other annoying things that refuse to stay within our borders.

 

In a global economy any country can make decisions without taking yours into account, to which yours has to respond whether it wants to or not. Take the 2008 Credit Crunch for instance. How the US decided to deregulate their financial industry ended up having consequences all around the world for how other countries had to manage their internal affairs.

In which case you may as well have a seat at the table and influence 50% of the decisions that other countries make --because one way or the other, those decisions come right back at you.

As I said many, many times before: in a global economy there is no "out".

 

I think you've spotted the problem.

Seriously, from your previous posts it is clear that you don't know how the EU works, or are even quite clear about how the British government works. If you are taking such an interest, wouldn't these be the basics that you would inform yourself on?

Did you read the Flexcit proposal by the way? You know, a plan for UK's withdrawal from the EU. I bet you didn't. You should.

Is that why the Lisbon treaty actually took powers away from the EU? Funny way of creating a superstate.

Sorry, the British people are too busy sitting on their ass making uninformed emotional voting decisions. Seems that all the responsibility and accountability should lie with the politicians, none with the electorate.

And how do you think a Brexit is going to ameliorate that? I really would like to hear that story.

 

And yet you get told what to do everyday of your life, you get told what ingredients go into the toothpaste you use each morning, you get told what voltage the electricity is running into your home, you get told how the water should be treated that you drink, you get told what quality the air that you breath should be.

Sure you can say you're not told those things but there's very little difference (IMO) from one governing body saying how things should be to another, they all set laws, rules, regulations and all centralising means is you have to follow more laws, rules, and regulations instead a a common set.

 

No you don't have more power, unelected heredity house of lords, unelected heredity head of state, appointed heads of the executive body, electoral district (constituencies) that are not representative of the voting percentage (13% vote = 1MP, 5% = 56).

Tell me again how ^^that^^ gives you more power?

 

@Nexxo and Corky

Ok chaps, You win. I know nothing about any form of government and I refute my attempts to understand it. What's the point eh.
I therefore submit to your wisdom and join your band of brothers.
I look forward to many discussions about amazing the EU is (some re-education might be required, under duress of course as I'm way gone).
When I have finally converted to the Blue and Gold and it comes time to fight the evil enemies of our leadership....I will fight alongside you on the battlefield.

After all, Totalitarianism means the the only way out is war.
I'll start my training now, So how much do you rekon we will get paid?

Your lucky, I was going to vote to leave too, Oh praise the enlightened ones

 

Do you accept Euros?

Sure, if you don't have a decent argument, you can always hide it behind a joke. That's just the sort of serious and responsible attitude that the electorate wishes to see in its politicians.

But the joke's on you. This referendum has no constitutional standing whatsoever.

Great Britain has no written constitution. Sovereignty actually lies, as it always has, in the House of Commons. Britain could only leave the EU by an act of Parliament. And it would be entirely up to Parliament to craft the terms of Brexit, and the shape of whatever followed, as even Boris Johnson and Michael Gove are at pains to emphasise (remember Gove's slip of the tongue: "We won't have left the EU by the end of this parliament"?). The British government, most opposition parties and political classes are overwhelmingly in favour of the EU. So, crucially, is the country’s powerful civil service.

The government will just craft the illusion of Brexit without much substance (like it crafted the illusion of a referendum that means something). Britain will end up striking deals with the EU to stay within the single market. In return it will have to keep making contributions for access, just as it does now. There might be a few symbolic changes in order to placate the public and maintain a big show of Brexit, but in reality little would change.

But as someone who takes a keen interest in the subject of government, sovereignty and democracy you already knew that, I'm sure.

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I believe you are right, hence piccard

Edit: You need to have a referndum to change this common law thing though right? The government can't just do it willy-nilly right?

 

Ah, misinterpreted the picture.

I'm not sure about that, to be honest. Parliament has ultimate power, which can only be overridden by the "Henry VIII Clause", which allows a government to repeal or amend an act of parliament without its approval. It is the most undemocratic, totalitarian power that the government has in its arsenal and, ironically for Brexiteers who vote 'out' to make UK government more democratic, the only way a Brexit could be forced through (if government were pro-Brexit, which it isn't).

 

If what he says is true then leave sides "fearmongering" was accurate all along.

 

From what I understand, he's not entirely correct. The EU has been negotiating with Turkey since 2005. There's also a nice PDF of the dates. Though it's a little outdated.

Further more, we have a veto, and with the entire country is against it and we don't veto then the issue lies with the government and not the EU.

Further reading.

 

Not only do we have a veto but so do the rest of the EU countries, many of which are far more again Turkish membership than we will ever be here (lets start with Greece...........).

 

What is this conspiratorial mumble meant to mean? Is this just don't trust anything with any backup, just trust any bloke talking on a video that agrees with what you thought beforehand. It's the sort of rubbish that has Donald Trump just a legal deposition or two away from the US presidency.

 

Interesting article, pretty much sums up what I think of the entire referendum.

TL: DR, 37% said they don't know much or anything about the issues surrounding the UK's EU membership, turnout is expected to be 70%, both sides lying and it should never have been put to the public.

 

A more compelling exit documentary

Is voting day today or tomorrow?

 

Jeez, mate, there’s a dead cat on the table!

Oh and BTW just because the EU is holding a meeting with Turkey still doesn't mean their going to join, they've had sixteen such meeting in the past, each one opening a new chapter and yet Turkey's only fulfilled one of those sixteen.

If it's taken the EU over a decade just to open 16 of the 33 chapters how much longer do you think it will take to open the next 17, let alone how long it will take Turkey to comply with the remaining 32.