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E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by TheBlackSwordsMan, 22 Feb 2016.

  1. walle

    walle Well-Known Member

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    Not doing good on what Brexit represented fall under the category of bad governance. I say fall under and not fall into, since not doing good on what it represented falls under a sub-category of what constitutes as...bad governance.
    I wouldn't call them fools, unless by fools you mean blue-eyed enough to trust that the people they hired to govern them would honor the trust agreement and not breach that trust.

    They were no more fools than those who voted to join the European Union after they had been told it would only be a trade union and nothing more, had they known the long term plans the politicians had in mind for their project I doubt they would have voted to join.
     
  2. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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  3. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Technically they got what they asked for, they got their fish...

    Maybe next referendum they'll ask for someone willing to buy it:grin:
     
  4. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Amaze.
     
  5. Mr_Mistoffelees

    Mr_Mistoffelees Lucifer Sam, Siam Cat, is my best friend.

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    Given that's the Express, it may or may not be true...
     
  6. mrlongbeard

    mrlongbeard Well-Known Member

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  7. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    Norway's agreement is done on an annual basis iirc.

    As such with us leaving the fishing agreement now becomes trilateral or two bilateral agreements for Norway.

    This was alwas going to happen with us leaving adding a new variable that needs resolving.
     
  8. mrlongbeard

    mrlongbeard Well-Known Member

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    I thought it had been resolved back in September when they & us agreed and signed a deal;
    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-b...reement-with-uk-ahead-of-brexit-idUKKBN26L13A

    So what's the hold up now?
     
  9. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    I've lost track TBH but then we've done deals, changed deals, threatened to break international law on deals and so on.

    No idea where we stood on it in the end.

    It is funny though, we seem to be preoccupied on a small sector of the economy when larger sections haven't been sorted.
     
  10. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Possibly if someone makes multiple conflicting promises, then they're bullshitting you.

    Except that they were told it was a political union. There were in fact great, detailed debates about just that during the 1975 EEC Referendum campaign (with the "No" campaign making an especially big deal about it). On 2nd May 1967 the then Prime Minister Harold Wilson said to the House of Commons:

    In 1972 the then Prime Minster Edward Heath said:

    Also on page 5 of the 1975 referendum pamphlet:

    OUR PARTNERS
    IN EUROPE


    With Britain, there are nine other members of the Common Market. The others are Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands.

    Their combined population is over 250 million.

    The Market is one of the biggest concentrations of industrial and trading power in the world. Its has vast resources of skill, experience and inventiveness.

    The aims of the Common Market are:

    • To bring together the peoples of Europe.
    • To raise living standards and improve working conditions.
    • To promote growth and boost world trade.
    • To help the poorest regions of Europe and the rest of the world.
    • To help maintain peace and freedom.
     
  11. walle

    walle Well-Known Member

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    @Nexxo
    I don't know how involved the people at the time would have been in those debates, before they voted.

    As for what the pamphlet states it pretty much points to the benefits of trade as far as I can tell.

    Sounds benign enough.
     
  12. perplekks45

    perplekks45 LIKE AN ANIMAL!

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    Even though it's technically a lot easier right now to engage political ideas and discussions as well as accessing all the (mis-)information one could possibly hope to find, thanks to the internet mainly, I don't think the average person today has a better and more realistic grip on what's going on in politics compared to the 70s.

    I honestly doubt people care enough to really sort through the information, if they can be bothered reading any of it at all. That situation hasn't improved from way back, people might be even less interested today, to be honest.
     
  13. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    You said that "they had been told it would only be a trade union and nothing more". That is clearly untrue.

    It also says:
    • To bring together the peoples of Europe.
    • To raise living standards and improve working conditions.
    • To promote growth and boost world trade.
    • To help the poorest regions of Europe and the rest of the world.
    • To help maintain peace and freedom
    Four out of five points have nothing to do with trade specifically.
     
  14. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Remember those protections that we definitely wouldn't scrap when we left the EU? The ones protecting the environment, our personal data, workers' rights, foods, financial markets?

    Yeah, Hannan's calling for them to be scrapped. Anyone surprised? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
     
    loftie likes this.
  15. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    Surprised it took this long, maybe.
     
  16. walle

    walle Well-Known Member

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    You might be onto something, there's also more distractions these days.

    Was there a public debate with people participating having the project explained to them, or did they just a hand out pamphlets, or both?

    Correct, but it does leave room for such an interpretation without too much creative thinking.

    Trade brings people together, trade raises the living standards, trade helps poorer regions, trade helps maintain peace and freedom...
     
  17. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Remember when leaving the nasty horrible hobbitses^WEuropean Union was going to cut red tape? Well, that's going well. No, the other thing. Badly.

    Still, we've only had four years to prepare for this, what did you expect?
     
  18. perplekks45

    perplekks45 LIKE AN ANIMAL!

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    Same thing as with Christmas: it's always a surprise to a lot of people when it's 'suddenly' very close.
     
  19. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    That's annoying, now the good lady has to pay more and fill in a customs form just to send things to her family.

    Not the biggest change, obviously, just an extra layer of frickin time wasting tedium.
     
  20. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Remember when Brexit would revitalise the great¹ British fishing industry? Like, wasn't that one of the very last positives Brexit supporters had in their deck at the end of last year?

    Turns out, not so much. In fact, a lot of 'em are probably going to go bankrupt - largely thanks to the brinkmanship games played by Our Glorious Leaders.

    ¹: Tiny. Like, the whole of the British fishing industry brings in less revenue than Games Workshop. Not the gaming industry, the company Games Workshop. So glad we made it a focus of our negotiations!
     
    Last edited: 8 Jan 2021

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