1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by TheBlackSwordsMan, 22 Feb 2016.

  1. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,648
    Likes Received:
    386
    Yea you've made that perfectly clear.
     
  2. adam_bagpuss

    adam_bagpuss Have you tried turning it off/on ?

    Joined:
    24 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    4,237
    Likes Received:
    152
    what job is that scroome - that sounds awful but sounds like a shitty employer to do that
     
  3. David

    David μoʍ ɼouმ qᴉq λon ƨbԍuq ϝʁλᴉuმ ϝo ʁԍɑq ϝμᴉƨ

    Joined:
    7 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    15,312
    Likes Received:
    3,578
    Whereas I am genuinely shocked by the vitriol dripping from this thread - Some of you folk need to step back and breathe for a moment (obv. not meaning you Arboreal).

    By all means let us hear debate on the possible ramifications of this democratic decision, but calling the leave voters morons really isn't the way forward, nor is crowing and baiting the remain crowd.

    I'd rather we continued to discuss the future of Britain than see the thread locked.
     
  4. StingLikeABee

    StingLikeABee What's a Dremel?

    Joined:
    17 Nov 2010
    Posts:
    562
    Likes Received:
    23
    I speak my mind, like it or not, I may have been more inclined to care if the people who were so vehemently insinuating that people like me were just some sort of idiot with an axe to grind for no good reason tried actually seeing perspectives from others like me.
     
  5. nimbu

    nimbu Modder

    Joined:
    28 Nov 2002
    Posts:
    2,364
    Likes Received:
    169
    Sorry to hear that bud. I work for a global charity and I'm sure this is going to have consequences for us. At least half of our London office are continental EU citizens and long term if there is going to be turmoil a London office might not be feasible for us any more.

    I knew I should have renewed all my internet (dollar / euro) based subscriptions!

    Jokes aside, well we dont know whats going to happen for now. Whilst I can understand the French / Germans are not happy they do export to us. I dont expect them to make it easy for us, but I dont think they will be cutting off their noses to spite their own faces. But hey I was wrong on the outcome, i'll probably be wrong about that too.

    This is where it might be starting my friend. Honestly in my opinion it is actually the failure of successive UK governments to anticipate the movement of people and build the public services we needed to cope, lack of stimuli to businesses to invest outside of London etc. Given that we are going to be in a bit of a white knuckle ride for a bit, I doubt that there is going to be cash to even cope with our "internal" demand.

    My parents settled here in the 70's from the commonwealth and I am one of the 1st generation born here, my wife was born in India. I dunno, I feel scared. My father doesnt talk very often about the times where he encountered racism but you know it was bad when he does. I concerned that today's decision will result in a more xenophobic secular Britain, one that no longer has a place for me, my family and all those other 1st / 2nd generationers as an equal.
     
  6. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    6,943
    Likes Received:
    268
    Well, it all depends on what brexit actually means.

    EEA membership is and will be tied to free movement clause, to a requirement to implement all EU regulations and pay a membership fee to EU.

    If you leave EEA too and wouldn't have free movement clause, it would mean :
    1) many companies would have to move their "European centers of operations" to continental Europe, as they would lose their meaning in UK, many of them are in UK because they have access to single market. If there is no access, there is no point staying. Minimum would be scaling back their operations in UK.
    2) it would hurt the value of Premier League a lot. There are pretty heavy limits on foreign players; and if UK leaves EU/EEA/free movement area, then each and every new player from EU will count as foreign player.

    In short - unless UK also leaves EEA, then NONE, i repeat NONE of the reasons why brexiters voted for brexit will change. You will still have to send money to EU. You will still have to have free movement of workforce from/to EU. You will still have to implement EU regulations.
     
  7. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    14,728
    Likes Received:
    3,541
    £200 billion wiped off our nation's value in minutes, plunging us below France in the global economy tables. I'm predicting political and financial turmoil, culminating in the worst recession we've seen in decades, rolling blackouts, food shortages, and - of course - riots. It's going to make Thatcher's Britain look like a jolly village picnic.

    Personally, I'm going to be stocking up on long-shelf-life food and bottled water, just in case. Oh, and if Scotland splits and goes back to the EU, I'm becoming Scottish. I already like neeps and haggis, so that must go in my favour on a citizenship application, right?
     
  8. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,648
    Likes Received:
    386
    What you mean in the same way you're not seeing it from their perspectives now?
     
  9. David

    David μoʍ ɼouმ qᴉq λon ƨbԍuq ϝʁλᴉuმ ϝo ʁԍɑq ϝμᴉƨ

    Joined:
    7 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    15,312
    Likes Received:
    3,578
    Yeah, I know that already. That's partly why I voted Remain.

    I'm saying lets use the thread to discuss the possible ramifications for Britain's future - good or bad.

    Ideally with a modicum of self control.
     
  10. nimbu

    nimbu Modder

    Joined:
    28 Nov 2002
    Posts:
    2,364
    Likes Received:
    169

    I disagree. Are we really saying that we will have an open boarder with an EU state? Its just not feasible anymore. Sure when ROI was just ROI that was fine. What would stop non ROI EU citizens from entering the UK over this boarder?

    IF our customs rules are different what happens then? I imagine this becoming a gateway for smokes and booze smuggling from the EU and eventually the closing of said open boarder.
     
  11. Archtronics

    Archtronics Minimodder

    Joined:
    27 Jun 2006
    Posts:
    2,556
    Likes Received:
    62
    Well I voted remain in the end.

    Judge the value of the pound and FTSE at the end of the day not the start.

    Simply mental amounts of money made last night on the currencies. Lots of short positions being closed at the moment, so the £ will see a bit of a recovery.

    We aren't out yet, so hopefully the EU will come up with a revised deal and we never trigger article 50 and stay in.
     
  12. StingLikeABee

    StingLikeABee What's a Dremel?

    Joined:
    17 Nov 2010
    Posts:
    562
    Likes Received:
    23
    I guess so. If that offends there isn't much I can do. I refuse to feel guilt or sorrow. At the end of the day, if the remain camp and its followers had taken the valid concerns, issues and problems seriously, instead of writing them off as people being xenophobic etc. then maybe I would be sat at my desk right now writing an admission of my error of judgement.

    For me to have voted remain all it would have taken would have been for the remain camp as a whole to make a frank admission that the freedom of movement was creating real and tangible problems AND to engage with communities like my own to better understand those problems AND to correctly identify those problems AND to put forth reasonable and effective proposals for solutions. All four or no deal. Never got any of the four apart from a grudging nod that there were problems, a lack of understanding of the exact problems and a half arsed, last minute deal that Cameron proposed. We never did get the engagement at all though.
     
    Last edited: 24 Jun 2016
  13. Gunsmith

    Gunsmith Maximum Win

    Joined:
    23 Sep 2005
    Posts:
    9,129
    Likes Received:
    1,456
    watching the news this morning they're throwing their toys around demanding we sign article 50 before we've even had chance to replace cameron.
     
  14. nimbu

    nimbu Modder

    Joined:
    28 Nov 2002
    Posts:
    2,364
    Likes Received:
    169
    But it's now our intent to Leave.

    1) I dont think the EU will revise the deal, sends the wrong message to other member states.
    2) Presumably there would need to be a second referendum to decide that? I dont think any Government would take the risk of agreeing to that given that the people have said they dont want that.
     
  15. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

    Joined:
    11 Aug 2008
    Posts:
    6,943
    Likes Received:
    268
    UK already got a pretty good deal, there is not much more space for EU to negotiate.
     
  16. .//TuNdRa

    .//TuNdRa Resident Bulldozer Guru

    Joined:
    12 Feb 2011
    Posts:
    4,042
    Likes Received:
    109
    I doubt it. The EU isn't going to give us a better deal when we're on the verge of leaving, it would set a very scary precedent that any other country not happy with their lot could vote leave then get improved terms.

    What's done is done, I voted Leave, despite my age group, because I honestly believe it'll be better in the long run for the country, we can dictate our own laws and decide our own future now, even if that future is going to send us hurling into the abyss in the short term.

    Ultimately I voted leave because I was tired of the EU forcing us to follow laws that simply did not work here, yet also letting us ignore others because it suited them (Farming restrictions on crops, Rapeseed not allowed within 10KM of built up areas anywhere else in Europe, but perfectly fine here!)

    I understand that this is going to cause a lot of turmoil and concern, and I'm sorry for that, but I voted the way I did because I honestly wanted to take back some modicum of control of our country, at least this way we've got a punch of pillocks that at least some of us voted for, not a bunch of nameless faceless legislators that we have basically no influence or contact with.

    My choice wasn't founded upon "Oooh no! These goshdurn Immugrants stealing Muh Jerbs!" it was founded upon the idea that we never truly opted into the EU, and the current system is nowhere near Democratic enough for me to be comfortable with it.

    I'm reasonably confident that most things will recover for now, however, it's still going to be several years, at least, before we truly leave the EU, so in that time; things are going to continue as normal, and business, people and countries will work out what's happening next just by keeping a close eye on the state of the negotiations that will be coming, we'll get through it. I doubt the country is going to sink into the sea.

    Edit; As for triggering Article 50 right now; that's just an moronic idea, the next few years are going to be filled with negotiation after negotiation as the EU and England sift through some hundreds of thousands of pages of agreements and laws to figure out how to untangle the UK from each of them in turn, This is going to take years to go through, tripping Article 50 now would just kick us out of the door with barely anything to work with.
     
  17. Archtronics

    Archtronics Minimodder

    Joined:
    27 Jun 2006
    Posts:
    2,556
    Likes Received:
    62
    Just a kneejerk reaction should calm down after the weekend.


    To think there will be no negotiation is foolish lets see how this pans out before we start claiming fire and brimstone.
     
  18. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

    Joined:
    3 May 2012
    Posts:
    5,239
    Likes Received:
    166
    No it won't be an open border, it'll be the usual fluting about that comes with a hard border. But I think things like trade and people migrating either side of the Irish sea will be easier than with other European countries. I would hope that we can use Northern Ireland and the fact that our GDPs are linked as leverage both with the rest of the EU and the UK to come to more amicable trade and migration terms. It won't be the same as it is now, just hopefully better than what things will be like with other EU members. Its far from guaranteed though. The EU could try and shut out the UK as much as possible to set an example for other member states. Britain could also just end up in the EEA and things won't be that different at all. We just have to ride it out now and see what happens.
     
  19. impar

    impar Minimodder

    Joined:
    24 Nov 2006
    Posts:
    3,108
    Likes Received:
    42
    Greetings!
    Adding that EEA countries dont have vote powers, they are just "observers".
     
  20. loftie

    loftie Modder

    Joined:
    14 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    3,065
    Likes Received:
    204
    I predict

    Scotland will say thank you to the UK and vote to happily stay in the UK after being saved from the stupid europeans.

    The EU will give us an amazing deal with access to the market and no free movement. We can even deport EU citizens and feel free to take a dump on their lawn whenever we feel like it - they don't mind.

    /s

    But in all seriousness, it's interesting that Cameron promised a vote, and now Cameron isn't enacting article 50 and is stepping down. I wonder who will replace him and if they will actually enact it?

    Edit: Petition to have a second EU referendum on 77k petitions. Maybe we should stipulate no BS from both sides?
     

Share This Page