1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by TheBlackSwordsMan, 22 Feb 2016.

  1. boiled_elephant

    boiled_elephant Merom Celeron 4 lyfe

    Joined:
    14 Jul 2004
    Posts:
    6,602
    Likes Received:
    847
    What the actual **** :D

    I actually get it in theory, and it's not "imperialist" or jingoistic at all - the lyrics are progressive and inclusive. It's in the same vein as the farcical 'woke' advertising phenomenon. It's political pandering.

    The thing is, Boris' government aren't socially progressive or inclusive, and much of their voter base is socially conservative. Hence the chorus, which on paper is neutral but if you want to see jingoistic flag-waving sentiment, you can squint and see that. The hope, I'm sure, was that social conservatives and patriotic types would focus on that bit, and feel appeased, and social progressives would see the "include everyone" woke verses, and feel appeased. Have your cake and eat it, without having to actually enact any policies one way or the other.

    Their error is drastically underestimating the entrenched skepticism and hostility of both groups: the conservatives will see the woke verses as a sell-out pandering effort, and the progressives will see the jingoistic flag-waving chorus as a sell-out pandering effort.

    It's so tone-deaf and robot-logic autistic that I can't help wondering if Microsoft was involved somehow.
     
  2. enbydee

    enbydee Minimodder

    Joined:
    10 Jul 2014
    Posts:
    500
    Likes Received:
    194
    One great team? What is this, communism? With Dowden demanding museums don't make political appointments but Osborne getting the top job at the British Museum, and that MP campaigning for a picture of the Queen to be sent to every household, it feels more and more like I'm taking crazy pills.
     
  3. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    14,795
    Likes Received:
    3,589
    EU roaming charges coming back, then. What a surprise.
     
  4. perplekks45

    perplekks45 LIKE AN ANIMAL!

    Joined:
    9 May 2004
    Posts:
    7,092
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Well, it was just gone because of EU Regulation (EU) No 531/2012, amended by Regulation (EEC) No 2015/2120 & Regulation (EU) No 2017/920. No longer being part of the EU seems to have a few downsides.
     
  5. loftie

    loftie Modder

    Joined:
    14 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    3,076
    Likes Received:
    212
    But now we won't be paying for roaming in our contracts so contracts will be cheaper now right.
    *tumbleweed*
    Right?!
    *tumbleweed*
    Hopefully 3 don't follow.
     
  6. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    14,795
    Likes Received:
    3,589
    WHO'DA THUNK IT.
    Vodafone's already said it's got no plans to ditch free roaming, but then again so did EE until it... y'know, ditched free roaming.
     
    perplekks45 likes this.
  7. mrlongbeard

    mrlongbeard Multimodder

    Joined:
    31 Jan 2010
    Posts:
    2,366
    Likes Received:
    539
  8. loftie

    loftie Modder

    Joined:
    14 Feb 2009
    Posts:
    3,076
    Likes Received:
    212
    Yea, fingers crossed. Hopefully since they've offered it before and in other locations 3 will stick to it but it just limits my choice now. Was considering switching off them, now that's less likely.
    Reducing the number of options when looking at a new contract will save me time though, so, #BrexitBonus I guess......
     
  9. boiled_elephant

    boiled_elephant Merom Celeron 4 lyfe

    Joined:
    14 Jul 2004
    Posts:
    6,602
    Likes Received:
    847
    This is one of the pro-Brexit speculations I've heard from people who actually voted Remain at the time: that it'll be a bitter pill to swallow - everything will get worse, everything will get more expensive - but that maybe, in the long-term, it will force an increase in wages in a lot of basic jobs that are currently underpaid, filling the positions with British people who currently avoid them.

    I can see it going the other way, though. If the economy suffers enough, and if the Tories stay in, there'll be cutbacks to benefits, and increased unemployment from other sectors, which will make people more desperate for work where they can get it and lower their jobseeking standards. So in jobs like freight we might just replace a mistreated, underpaid underclass of foreigners with a mistreated, underpaid underclass of British people.
     
  10. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    14,795
    Likes Received:
    3,589
    Sounds like a zero-sum game to me. Everything gets more expensive, so wages go up... but it cancels out. If I'm earning £200 more a month but my bills have gone up £200 as well, then the whole thing's a wash - I'm not actually any better off.
     
  11. boiled_elephant

    boiled_elephant Merom Celeron 4 lyfe

    Joined:
    14 Jul 2004
    Posts:
    6,602
    Likes Received:
    847
    I think the thrust of the optimism was that it'd mean a more local and nationalistic economy that involves less long-distance travel, less import/export, more local production, more local businesses, less commute, less migratory work. Things getting more expensive, less disposable income all around, but a price worth paying for a nation less enmeshed in international exchanges of goods and services, with lower unemployment and increased quality of life for workers. But it won't happen that way, because the government won't sacrifice popularity for long-term benefits.

    Edit - and also because we literally cannot produce many of the things we need and expect, like foreign foodstuffs, engineering and tech.
     
  12. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    14,795
    Likes Received:
    3,589
    This is the bit that doesn't make sense to me. If a minimum-wage job is 80% of my bills, I literally can't afford to take it. If my bills go up by the same amount that the salary does (or that minimum wage does), then I still can't afford to take it - it's still 80% of my bills, whether the salary is £80 a month and my bills are £100 a month or my salary is £8,000 a month and my bills are £10,000 a month. The two are functionally identical.

    I just can't see how "everyone's bills get more expensive" automatically translates to "so companies start paying them even more than the increase in cost of living and treat them better." Like... they haven't done so far, so why would they now?
     
  13. wolfticket

    wolfticket Downwind from the bloodhounds

    Joined:
    19 Apr 2008
    Posts:
    3,312
    Likes Received:
    450
    Untitled.jpg
    :happy:
     
  14. boiled_elephant

    boiled_elephant Merom Celeron 4 lyfe

    Joined:
    14 Jul 2004
    Posts:
    6,602
    Likes Received:
    847
    Edit - disregard, I shouldn't post before my morning coffee
     
  15. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    34,532
    Likes Received:
    1,900
    Last edited: 8 Jul 2021
  16. Anfield

    Anfield Multimodder

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2010
    Posts:
    6,859
    Likes Received:
    904
    "F*** off already you filthy remoaner traitors"
    5 seconds later:
    "No, not like that."
     
    Nexxo likes this.
  17. boiled_elephant

    boiled_elephant Merom Celeron 4 lyfe

    Joined:
    14 Jul 2004
    Posts:
    6,602
    Likes Received:
    847
    That was always one of the more progressive-friendly arguments against points-based, or meritocratic, immigration, wasn't it? That it essentially deprives the donor nations of their most valuable and employable citizens by allowing and encouraging them to go elsewhere, while discriminating against less economically useful/unskilled people by denying them movement. Now our anti-immigration stance may cause the same thing to happen in reverse. Curious.

    Still reading the unabomber manifesto at the moment, and he argues that political and social systems are so complex that it is impossible to make a large change and predict the results. (Kind of like a political version of the N-body problem.) I didn't think about it in these terms at the time of the Brexit vote but if I had, this would have been another less ethical and purely rational reason to vote Remain: if drastic systemic change is unpredictable, then any speculations about the effects is bollocks.
     
    Nexxo likes this.
  18. perplekks45

    perplekks45 LIKE AN ANIMAL!

    Joined:
    9 May 2004
    Posts:
    7,092
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Offtopic, I know, but if you like that kind of problem: read Liu Cixin's brilliant Three-body Problem.
     
  19. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

    Joined:
    20 Nov 2005
    Posts:
    12,406
    Likes Received:
    1,618
  20. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

    Joined:
    23 Oct 2001
    Posts:
    34,532
    Likes Received:
    1,900

Share This Page