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E.U: Leave or Stay? Your thoughts.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by TheBlackSwordsMan, 22 Feb 2016.

  1. Fingers66

    Fingers66 Kiwi in London

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    What is it with the Tories thinking that they can just treat people like **** then act surprised when those people tell them to just f**k right off?

    (...reads history books back to Liz 1st...)

    ...never mind, I think I know where they got it from.
     
  2. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

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    If you were going to come here to do this job, chances are you found the old terms decent, which was typically min wage, zero hours etc, etc, coming in on a Visa could see it being more financially lucrative due to the visa salary requirements and more security from your sponsor as they have also to do a good job to maintain the license to keep bringing people in.

    Point of immigration control is to manage the flow of people, bringing in the people UK need as required when the UK can't fill positions domestically, we can't fill these domestically because as a UK citizen you can work anywhere and there are much easier jobs to do for that same NLA, not being able to cheap out and being Visa driven may help to bring up the wage here making it more appealing for domestic workers than working in Tesco, maybe not.

    Brexit hasn't changed immigration, we have plenty of immigration, the difference now there is no free flow and rights from EU, the company I worked for had no problem bringing in foreign staff this year but we offer a good package and environment so people want to come, when you come in on a visa you have to sponsor, earn and be educated to a certain level, this is a sticking point for some other places because what they really want to do is bring 'em in on minimum wage and work them like slaves for maximum profit, you could do with open borders policy exploiting people from poorer places in the EU, now if they want them, they have to pay them a better wage, provide support and pay for the Visa etc.

    The recent big loss of care home staff has come about due to the requirement for mandatory vaccination, no jab, no job basically, it is a sad state of affairs but some won't be convinced a vaccine is worth while despite working with people who are more likely to be high risk. I'd like to think people running these places are taking the virus seriously now considering the level of deaths.

    I'm sure we will have an even worse problem with the NHS staff come April when they too will have to have a two jab min to work, if the news is accurate 70k are unvaccinated in NHS :duh: I'm sure that staff loss will be attributed to Brexit also.
     
    Last edited: 26 Dec 2021
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  3. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    And those people still vote for them.
     
  4. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    This is incorrect. EU law states that immigrant workers have to be paid the same wage for the same job as locals. The UK tried to oppose it, of course.

    In reality, for exploitation of workers UK business will just look towards the third-world Commonwealth nations more.
     
    Last edited: 26 Dec 2021
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  5. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

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    That's the point I was making, obviously badly :D the wage for the job for locals is typically the national living wage, many EU migrants were happy to come across and work for this so there was no incentive for companies employing low level care staff to offer a wage commensurate to the work they do, therefore they do not entice locals into that role because unless you've got some personal devotion to the cause of care giving you're not going to do that job for that money when there are other opportunities.

    Yes businesses will still do business things and take staff from where ever they can get them cheap but if the supply is not there you will ultimately have to address the real issue which is not immigration but offering a worthwhile package. Of course that will not be done if instead they can jump up and down shouting brexit, brexit, brexit, in the hope they can overturn something when in fact the main issue is you are just a poor employer.

    You can still get the staff elsewhere with a Visa and it could still end up being a route to settlement for mgrants, just with the Visa the companies will have to pay them 20-30% more which pushes up the base level of pay in general. This will obviously have a knock on effect of pushing up the cost of care no doubt as it'll never come out of profits but that happens in all markets all over the world, when cost of resources go up so does the product.
     
  6. Byron C

    Byron C Ripping a line of speed off a sh**-encrusted bog

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    And this is where I disagree. We were still in the EU when the 'gig economy' started being a thing: employ people as contractors and pay them per delivery instead of an hourly rate - oh and by the way, you don't get benefits, holidays, sick pay, either. Whether we're in the EU or not, or have strong immigration controls or not, capitalism is going to exploit every possible means to make profit regardless of the human cost.
     
  7. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    FTFY (after all, EU immigrants could access those other opportunities as well).
     
  8. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

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    Which of course brings you full circle to an element of the population who would have voted for this shitshow in the first place under the whole taking back the borders because of the impression whether real or not that foreigners were taking the jobs they want etc.
     
  9. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    And now they are seeing the Tories slowly restoring freedom of movement to everyone except British citizens...
     
  10. sandys

    sandys Multimodder

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    With respect to what, The visas?

    Opening up visa applications to a fill specific need is an entirely different thing to freedom of movement, you can't come in on an employment Visa and work anywhere else but where you are sponsored.

    But do agree the flexibility being part of EU was great, it's likely to be a bit of a pain for me going forward as I've typically made my coin in EU and in fact the EU funded all my training in the early years which landed me in a position to go to the EU and train EU engineers in the same thing they trained me for :D
     
    Last edited: 27 Dec 2021
  11. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    I'm still waiting for any Brexit 'benefits' we were promised.

    I'm still waiting to be convinced I was wrong about it being a bad idea. I'd love to be convinced, I really would.
     
  12. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    I'm being a bit facetious here. To be honest I've got no skin left in the game and as an EU citizen none of this will affect me. Especially after the events of the last few months, I'm just focusing on getting on with my life and leaving the world to be the world.
     
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  13. loftie

    loftie Multimodder

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  14. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    Welcome to 2022 and the new regs coming into force.

    I'll line up the fan, even the Express says they'll cause havoc.
     
  15. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Multimodder

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  16. David

    David μoʍ ɼouმ qᴉq λon ƨbԍuq ϝʁλᴉuმ ϝo ʁԍɑq ϝμᴉƨ

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    ..or it has already done it and we won't find out until the morning.

    BTW, the sheer number of people who actually swallow the affable buffoon act absolutely staggers me. I have to work with a couple of them and, even when I point out his BS, they still refuse to see it. One of them said there must be something wrong with me if I can't admit he's a charming, lovable rogue.
     
  17. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    Some people feel comfortable playing the subservient peasant role and enjoy dothing their cap.
     
  18. David

    David μoʍ ɼouმ qᴉq λon ƨbԍuq ϝʁλᴉuმ ϝo ʁԍɑq ϝμᴉƨ

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    Nah, mate - they are convinced I have an agenda. I'm a northerner living in the south so, apparently, that means I'm a dyed in the wool Labour supporter and I only hate Boris because he's a Tory.

    I absolutely love being told that I can't see past my own prejudices by people who can't see past their own.
     
  19. Mr_Mistoffelees

    Mr_Mistoffelees The Bit-Tech Cat. New Improved Version.

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    If being intelligent enough to see through the arsehole Johnson's act, means you have something wrong with you, then I am happy to have the same problem.
     
  20. Mr_Mistoffelees

    Mr_Mistoffelees The Bit-Tech Cat. New Improved Version.

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