Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Garside, 2 Oct 2006.
forum link has an extra /preview/ in it so doesn't work ? ah and is missing the date
Edit add #2
I think the right games could be quite helpfull, I'm thinking more armadillo run or bridge builder to teach the effects of physics, plus things like thomas and the magic words for vocabulary and so on, maybe even a few strategy games to teach lateral thinking.
I cant see NFS or battlefield 2 becoming a mainstay of the program though ;p
I could see some games being useful (i.e. those that require a modicum of lateral thinking) but not your average FPs, footie or racing game...
Who cares weather its good for you! Any thing, especialy games, beats math any day.
Can I just say this article is quite a bit old, its only just had a paragraph or two appended to it.
I know i've learned tons of things playing CS and BF2. I know all about the military's weapons and new jets and how many points it takes to rise up the ranks and the best place to shoot a tank with a grenade launcher...oh wait... I think this is pretty lame. Maybe RTS games would be somewhat useful but most games i really doubt. I used to play reader rabbit and that was fun and i guess informative but i doubt that is the stuff EA is talking about.
I hate this company they are such dueshbags. I can see how somebody could benifit from gameing/learning but our problem is not understimulation it is overstimulation. As a race we have a shorter attention span than our ancestors and it is only getting shorter. I dont see a benifit to anyone other than the game manufactures.
Not really new though. I played "Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego" and "Oregon Trail" back in elementry school. Games have kind of gone out of favor, but I think they hold a lot of potential. Problem is, making them actually educational and still engaging. Of course, that's the problem with most education
If you're old enough to remember using Apple IIs in (US) schools you probably remember Lemonade Stand, Oregon Trail, Where in the US/World/Europe/Hell is Carmen SanDiego, Reader Rabbit and a few dozen other educational games that got the machine into the schools in the first place and kept it there longer then it probably should have been. Regardless, there is a place for games in a lesson plan however the game needs to have an educational factor, not just entertainment.
As long as the company can produce these edu-games at a price that is fair to the schools then go for it.
Lemonade stand. Haven't thought about that one in years.
I wonder if Oregon Trail was the original first person shooter?
I would have loved armadillo run or something of that ilk... doubt many school PCs can run it though
man this is just lame, EA just want more people to buy more games, no more, no less, this is not about education.
This would be good I guess, as long as the games were similar to commercial titles (and had weapons) otherwise, it'l never fly. Although, when I was 7 I did get pretty addicted to Reading Quest for PC, its single-handedly the reason why I can spell any three letter word perfectly.
I disagree. I'm in my senior year of HS, and I love AP Calculus.
I think it's a good idea to get kids started on computers at a young age. I remember playing an old DOS game called "Number Munchers" (iirc)...now that was a fun game.
I do think certain puzzle type games help to develop problem solving skills. Remember those old adventure games like Monkey Island, or The Dig, etc? Those were pretty fun, it's a pity they don't make them anymore (well I guess they still do sort of, Parasite Eve, Resident Evil, etc had a sort of problem solving element to them, Zelda series definately had quite a bit of puzzle solving to them). Kind of broadens your thinking.
RTS's if you get into the whole strategy thing also help, but a lot of people just rush or produce faster than you which is more of a timing thing (routine, habit, whatever), and actually makes you dumber.
FPS's are more reaction time, guess if you play sports it can help, though again, if you get a routine going (i.e. playing with the same friends on the same map over and over again), you get dumber... If they could make an FPS with random maps and random enemy spawns with enemies that have immunities to certain weapons, that might help you, since you're constantly paying attention to what's going on, but it's difficult to design a truly random game like that.
A lot of games (jobs and school work too!) nowadays are built on routine alone, and that's what makes people dumb and attention spans short.
A bit OT but, ah, calculus... I remember how useless that was once I started taking advanced college level math in engineering where linear differential equations govern everything (though they're based off calculus, they're quite a different beast). Discreete math and combinatorics was also pretty intriguing (basically code breaking, learn how to break into an ATM, or crack 128-bit ecryption). Laplace transforms, some other obscure transforms I don't remember anymore, eigen value problems, matrix math, the list goes on. A lot of non-engineers/non-math majors believe calculus is the end all and be all of math, and I always kind of found it funny.
Ever take "pre-calc"? Kind of makes you mad that you ever wasted your time with that course after you take calc doesn't it?
Though I found that knowing all this crap makes you automatically incompatible with 99% of the world's population...
Better if they were taught their social responsibilities rather than gaming.
I work as an IT technician in a secondary school. We have a total ban on non-educational games playing on the network. Unfortunately the educational games that they are allowed to play still interfere with lessons. Students would rather be playing Tanks (Worms with angles) than learning about Shakespeare.
The saddest thing is that most of our students have become over reliant on computers. They cannot get by without Office or Google's spell check facility and if the Internet goes down, whole lessons are simply abandoned.
I remember playing Grannys Garden on the BBC B, when I first started school. I think I've still got the (5¼") disc somewhere...
Games like this for pre-school/infant school were really good for teaching logic, simple math and spelling
If I find myself, nearly 30 and who never touched a computer while on school increasingly dependant on Wikipedia, Google, spell checkers etc., one can only guess what's going to happen with current children. It's fine to use all the tools at hand, but over reliance on computers is probably a bad habit, more so, when you are so young and learning.
Regarding games as teaching tools...I don't see what can you learn from computer games. Yeah, gamers learn to tinker with and troubleshoot computers, but that's hardly an academic merit. And there are some games that can make you get an interest in certain subjects (say, Gabriel Knight III had me reading about medieval history for months), but they are a minority.
Adventure games, for sure, don't help with problem solving skills, as most puzzles in games lack any logical or coherent solution (they are usually more based on pixel-hunting and trial and error than logic). FPS? Do they improve eye-hand reaction and reflexes more than basketball or any sport? Hardly (and sports help improve physical condition). RTS? As it's been said, they are a matter of reflexes (micro management) and routine (build orders), but lack true strategy (and OTOH, military strategy isn't neither a relevant academic value). And I don't know of any game that teaches the value of effort and perseverance (on gaming language this is called "frustration" and "bad gameplay"...those that do, usually do so because bad implemented mechanics)...they are more about instant gratification.
Having kids being familiar with computers is surely a must and games are as fine as any other activity for their free time, but I don't see their place in school.
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