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Elementary school shooting

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Sloth, 14 Dec 2012.

  1. mucgoo

    mucgoo Minimodder

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    Those kind of home-made guns do occasionally turn up in the UK but are rare. Very harsh penalties make them something that is to risky even for criminals.
    It say something that they are still made in small quantities despite the fact a "real" guns are available just they are very hard to obtain and must be well secured.
     
  2. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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  3. walle

    walle Minimodder

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    I think the statement illustrates the problem with society when it brings around change on the basis of fear. Something we have seen a lot of for the past 10 years. As for shoes I keep mine on.
     
  4. wafflesomd

    wafflesomd What's a Dremel?

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    http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp#crime

    * Not counting the above-listed anomalies, the homicide rate in England and Wales has averaged 52% higher since the outset of the 1968 gun control law and 15% higher since the outset of the 1997 handgun ban

    * Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the percentage of Chicago murders committed with handguns has averaged about 40% higher than it was before the law took effect

    I'm not sure banning guns is the right way to go. Better education is what I think will work.
     
  5. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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  6. wafflesomd

    wafflesomd What's a Dremel?

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  7. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Not anymore, but you can sign up for free. I have. You don't get spammed and you can read new content for a limited amount of time.
     
  8. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    I was looking at the Just Facts page, and there is something interesting about the graph depicting the murder rate in Washington, DC, before, during, and after the handgun ban and trigger-lock law. The caption states that the murder rate was higher while the ban was in place, leading the viewer to believe that the ban was somehow the case of the increase. However, looking at the data points it appears as though the murder rate rose for several years prior to 1976 (the year the law was enacted), and was on average relatively flat for about 10 years. Something happened between 1986 and 1992 to cause a huge spike in the murder rate, but after 1992 the rate consistently fell until the law was repealed in 2008. While it may be true that the murder rate was higher during the years the ban was enacted, that statement alone does not provide an accurate picture.

    I'd be curious to know what happened between 1986 and 1992 to cause such a huge jump, and why the murder rate fell so sharply afterwards.

    Edit: I also looked a the section regarding the Chicago handgun ban. While the number of murders committed with a handgun may have increased, the graph above that one shows that the overall murder rate fell. I would still view these statistics with the same caution as the others since it appears as though the overall murder rate went down then remained steady for a few years after the ban, ticked up in the late 80s, then fell beginning around 1992.

    What happened in the early 1990s that might have contributed to declining crime rates?
     
    Last edited: 19 Dec 2012
  9. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    One firearm murder per hour in US. Or 3.4 if you include suicides.
     
    Last edited: 19 Dec 2012
  10. Porkins' Wingman

    Porkins' Wingman Can't touch this

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  11. Carrie

    Carrie Multimodder

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    Firstly, I think we need to separate the psyche of the US people and that of the UK, since I believe them to be somewhat different and I was referencing UK events.

    Since we, UK residents, do not have a gun culture as a way of life you know full well it's impossible to cite empirical proof of my comment. However, what is known for certain is the following:

    • peer pressure or desire to impress one's peers can lead to greater extremes of excess in behaviour and actions, particularly by young insecure individuals
    • when a sufficiently large number of people gather together in events such as were the case in the UK last year mob mentality can and often does take over
    • mob mentality robs the individual of reasoned thinking
    • ignoring the severity of fire-bombing premises and looting that took place for a moment, the police were attacked with missiles including bottles, bricks, large timber batons, etc.
    • one of the potentially most surprising facts to arise from the subsequent investigation was the significant percentage of "ordinary" people, employed, some with good jobs, some from middle class backgrounds, usually law abiding, etc. etc. etc. who participated in the form of aggressors in these events.
    Now accepting, as I trust you will do, the above information, without the need for me to post some of the thousands of supporting videos, articles, publications, court statistics etc., add to the equation guns available to all and tell me why I shouldn't reasonably consider it a realistic possibility that an idiot or gang of idiots would fire a shot and all hell break loose?

    But whose life does the "American tendency" value? And to what extent? Does the "American tendency" value the life of their neighbour sufficiently, who can't afford healthcare insurance, to contribute to a nationwide system that does, voluntarily? Does the "American tendency" stop to ask the guy trying to steal its car why he's stealing it before shooting him dead? Or shoot the burglar, even if he doesn't have a gun or is running away? Or the Iraqi on a street corner minding his own business before the "American tendency" bombs the crap out of him without UN backing?

    I hope you will forgive me for saying this because I find your posts very interesting, informative and well researched but frankly to my ears that sounds like a response from a petulant child being threatened with having his toys taken away by his mother. To me the subject of firearms, because of the damage they can do, is too serious a matter for that kind of attitude.
     
    Last edited: 19 Dec 2012
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  12. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Recently some researchers have suggested the rise of the mobile phone as a factor in the reduction of muggings and rapes. It's more risky when your victim can immediately dial 911 after the crime.
     
  13. walle

    walle Minimodder

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    Reading some history and the constitution would help you gain a better understanding of what you are looking at. Much of what has been said in this thread, and elsewhere, has been emotional diatribes sprung from a lack of understanding, or that of knee jerk reactions. No one can bring you up to speed. There are no quick Google searches. No YouTube videos. You will simply have to do the work yourself putting the effort in doing some reading.
     
  14. Carrie

    Carrie Multimodder

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    The irony is the knee jerk reaction is coming from you. "You can't take my gun away cos 230+ years ago someone said I could have one :p".

    It's no longer 1776 is it. Or the "wild west". Times and circumstances change. Life changes and so can and do laws to meet those changes.

    A fear of being prevented "unfairly" (or for some more sinister unspecific reason) from attaining a "qualified" licence, if such a system were introduced, has been voiced.

    You seem to ignore the fact we do have guns in the UK - legally held by people, particularly farmers - and we accept that as a necessity. If a UK resident applies for a licence and is rejected they have a right of appeal to the courts. So excluding the "I want a gun cos I want a gun" argument which some of you are disguising as "self protection", why wouldn't such a system work in the US?
     
    Last edited: 20 Dec 2012
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  15. walle

    walle Minimodder

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    Extending your help with suggesting ways of gaining a better understanding doesn't constitute a knee jerk response.
     
  16. madkat769

    madkat769 What's a Dremel?

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  17. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    Or take a photo during the mugging and post it to Instagram for all to see!
     
  18. lm_wfc

    lm_wfc Minimodder

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  19. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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  20. Da_Rude_Baboon

    Da_Rude_Baboon What the?

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    As an interesting aside Greece appears to be rife with guns. My Dad lives in Crete and with the local population (akin to the celebrated 'Merican red neck) it is certainly de-rigueur to own the biggest automatic weapon you can. Any kind of festival or celebration ends in hundreds of rounds being shot into the air. It is quite an eery experience to be enjoying a drink on his terrace to the sound of automatic gun fire or to have lunch in the local taverna with the owner cleaning his AK47 on the table next to you. In the mountain villages it also not uncommon for gun battles to occur.

    As it is Greece I would take any official figures on gun ownership with a large pinch of salt and I suspect a lot of these weapons come in illegally from North Africa or the former Bulkan states.
     

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