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Elementary school shooting

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Sloth, 14 Dec 2012.

  1. walle

    walle Well-Known Member

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    Anything can be challenged.

    As for the question I answered it several times. I suppose the answer wasn’t to his satisfaction because I had to repeat it. I wasn't getting bashful. I then went on to show his post on page 17, to make a point of his point to me, which was valid, I also recognized it.

    Sometimes you make hasty posts, and I'm not above admitting my mistakes. To my defense, I've been working all day and I will have to work all night, I am dead beat, that's my excuse.
     
    Last edited: 28 Dec 2012
  2. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    Work all night? Sucks, man. What do you do for a living?
     
  3. faugusztin

    faugusztin I *am* the guy with two left hands

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    <sarcasm>expecting the following answer: security guard</sarcasm>. That would explain his viewpoint too.
     
  4. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    Gun owners in the US seem to all react the same way when it comes to gun control, it all seems to be "OMARGHURD! they want to take our guns away completely!".

    No one's (Okay, some people are, but as a gun nut (Who owns no guns thanks to gun control (It's a good thing)), nuts to them) saying none of you should have guns, just that it should be harder to get guns.

    Guns should not be as readily available as cereal, and I cannot fathom the mindset that thinks they should be.

    Want to own a gun? Prove you're responsible, trained, and capable of using it and storing it in a sensible manner. If you cannot do any of that, you should not be allowed a firearm of any type.

    Of course criminals are still going to get guns, but making it harder for the opportunist criminal to get a gun is only a good thing. Career criminals are going to know where to go, but that's a risk you have to take. It's not often that these school shootings, movie theatre shootings and other "Gunman vs unarmed crowd" affairs are committed by career criminals - It's the joe bloggs off the street who just happened to snap and be able to get a gun with next to no effort.

    America, keep your guns, but for the love of <insert deity, item, whatever> make it harder to get the damned things - They are dangerous.
     
  5. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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  6. walle

    walle Well-Known Member

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    I work as a welding engineer.
     
  7. patrickk84

    patrickk84 New Member

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    Um, no. I think you're just generalizing based on the loud voice of a few gun owners. Not one gun owner that I know thinks along those lines. Most all of them agree to tighter gun control as well. And I know quite a few gun owners, having spent six years in the Military and now another 4 in the government sector(where everyone is ex military). Along with having a very large family in rural Michigan. And I have not heard one person voice an opinion like the one you've stated. Maybe it's the company I keep? I can accept that. Or just maybe... We are reasonable people and really don't think they want to take our guns.
     
  8. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    While what you say may be true for where you are and the company you keep, it is a startlingly large proportion of internet posting gun-owners that vehemently decry gun control propositions.

    I accept that there are sane gun owners (I used to have a few friends who were excellent people, and kept their guns responsibly, used them responsibly, and didn't go overboard with how many they owned, and subsequently were not fussed about gun control), but you cannot deny that the most vocal ones - The ones that get peoples backs up, and the ones on which people base their opinions, are absolutely off their rocker when it comes to sensible gun control.

    I don't have an issue with sensible gun owners - Although apparently I failed to make that clear - or even people who like guns. It's just the overriding impression that most gun owners on your side of the pond are a little bit too into owning vast quantities of firearms for no reason other than "self defence" (Although, hats off to anyone who lives in such a **** place that they need seven pistols, two assault rifles, missile launchers and enough ammunition to start a small war - And manages to use them all before getting themselves killed).
     
  9. Cthippo

    Cthippo Can't mod my way out of a paper bag

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    That's not unique to gun owners. All groups are judged by the craziest amongst them.

    It's the same reason that people think of terrorists when they think of Muslims, or that that they think of Westboro Baptist when they think of Christians or Donald Trump for the capitalists or internet trolls for computer users etc etc.

    In any group you'll find a loud minority who insist on living up to the stereotypes, and who make it easy to overlook the more typical majority.
     
    walle likes this.
  10. patrickk84

    patrickk84 New Member

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    This is exactly what I was trying to point out. Thanks.
     
  11. Noob4ever

    Noob4ever always learning

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    This is flawed thinking, so if some booze besotted drunk kills an entire family while driving to another bar, do you go blame GM, or Jack Daniels? Or do you blame the man who did it.
    And when I ask this question this is after having driven a tow truck for a couple years way back and cleaning up the results of such accidents, its horrific.

    It's not my fault or my problem what someone else does, their mental instability should not affect my life or my rights or my freedom. It doesn't matter if something is illegal or not, when someone wants something they will get it, look at this laughable war on drugs that's been going on for 40 years.

    If I was so inclined I could have drugs within a couple of hours, Guns may take a tad longer but that's it. And anyone with a bit of intelligence and a cheap Chinese mill or even hand tools can make a gun, the British Sten gun is a perfect example of something designed to be made by hand very cheaply and still be effective.

    At the end of the day the American 2nd amendment gives US citizens the right to bear arms, If you want less death by guns, fix the social/mental problems that lead to such things in the first place, removing guns is not going to make someone less inclined to kill someone.


    http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html
    Is an example of gun control that works, but not something most people would like. First, theres mandatory service where everyone is trained, second everything must be registered(most) and must be mentally sound. That is reasonable control, this bury your head in the sand and think that everything will be alright so long as there's no more guns is a joke. To blame anyone other than the one perpetrating such actions is simply not logical.

    It must be reason that rules such decisions, not high strung emotions. You may feel others must bear responsibility for anothers actions, but that is not the case. And yes I caught the portion that you said without reasonable reason etc etc, But I shoot competively and have since I was a kid, is sport a good reason? Most would say not, I do.
     
  12. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    I don't disagree - But if gun control is so highly thought of, and the loud nutters are so few in number, why is there none?

    I'm not intending to come across as hostile, but I cannot get my head around the notion that the majority want it, but the minority is preventing it happening - The numbers don't add up.
     
  13. Noob4ever

    Noob4ever always learning

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    I think what your getting there is not what most people make it out to be, alot of people dont want gun control in the US, despite what they say, mainly because every lobbyists idea of gun control in DC is to completely get rid of or eliminate a majority of firearms and make it infinitely more difficult to get said firearm. And when I said more difficult some of the hoops you have to jump through for class 3 etc take 2+ years.

    So gun control as commonly touted is really extinction, and that is where I think lies some of the misunderstandings regarding the subject. For example, right now to buy a gun I have to be clear through the ATF who does a background check, some states require more as in a 10 day wait while a more thorough check is done, especially for handguns.

    Now people see a year or more to be cleared to purchase a firearm which is what some people are advocating as control, which is what some classes of firearms and devices take, as really outlawing them all together.

    So when a gun guy/gal tells you their for gun control, they have no problems with a full background and criminal check, what they have a problem with is bureaucratic bs designed to take long enough to make the process an ordeal instead of simply a part of how the system works.

    As for gunshows which there are alot of in the US, alot of them require membership before you can purchase weapons, and membership comes with a background check unless you have a CCL which comes with a very rigorous check as it is. Or simply make the CCL requirements standard for ownership and you have most people happy with it.
     
  14. Carrie

    Carrie Well-Known Member

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    If you're going to join the party late, and quote posts 200 down the line, perhaps you should continue reading before posting the same old argument:

    Or for that matter read anyone else's post here who has countered the "I can kill with a car" bo!!ox. You drink and drive and kill or maim and it's your, the driver's, fault as we all know because in that instance you have turned a car into a lethal weapon - not its primary purpose.
     
  15. Scirocco

    Scirocco Boobs, I have them, you lose.

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    Strangely enough there are many locations (if not all) in the US that have laws prohibiting serving alcoholic drinks to drunk people. It is precisely because the purveyors of alcohol were judged to have at least some liability in drunk driving accidents.
     
  16. supermonkey

    supermonkey Deal with it

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    You're talking about the Social Host Liability, and you are correct that the laws related to it vary from place to place. In he past, I have been to parties in which upon entering the house guests were required to place their car keys in a bowl. If you decided to leave you had to find the sober person guarding the bowl and convince him or her that you were capable of driving. This was done to mitigate some of the risk to the host.
     
  17. Scirocco

    Scirocco Boobs, I have them, you lose.

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    There is that, but there are also laws for commercial liquor-serving establishments.
     
  18. Combinho

    Combinho Ten kinds of awesome

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  19. Petrol head

    Petrol head New Member

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    I have been reading this thread for a while. I believe it is obvious that many Americans see and limitation to guns almost offensive.
    I therefore wish to point out something towards the why, the original question.

    Has anyone ever been so angery you really want to hurt someone! I was heavily bullied growing up, because I was small and a bit of an outsider. At one point it became my wish for certain people just to die. Of course I never did anything about it because essentially what could I do? Even with a baseball bat, knife, etc I am limited and by the time I had struck my first blow regret would of come from this person now crying out.

    Here is the difference, with a gun I could of held on to the anger. Bang bang next. Only when there is a pause for reflection would have realised what he did. Why do you think they always kill themselves.

    If you want a gun fine. What needs to change is ease of access to that gun. A shoe box in a cupboard is just a little too easy to get to.

    Call me crazy if you wish but I feel sorry for all involved in that shooting, including the shooter.

    At the end of the day we are still animals. We have response buttons and if the right one's are pushed almost anyone can kill. He must have been so angry. Crazy people after attention do not shoot themselves at the end. The are too busy smiling at the press giving them exactly what they want.

    Sorry it's a bit dark, it's just my experience and thoughts. I am thankful to say I am in a much better place now.
     
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  20. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    I won't dispute that, but the gun industry in America is rather large. Especially the 2nd hand industry.
     

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