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News EU Court rules IP Act data retention illegal

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Gareth Halfacree, 21 Dec 2016.

  1. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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  2. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    What with the "great" repeal bill writing all EU laws, rules, and regulations into UK law when we leave the EU would that also include the judgment on the legality of the IP bill?

    Also if anyone cares the full judgment of the court has been published on the CURIA site, not that i understand most of the legal speak in it. :D
     
  3. Tynecider

    Tynecider Since ZX81

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    The EU have got their own snooper tech, The INDECT system, First reported in the UK in 2008, has been silent for two years.
    The partners involved (in INDECT) for the UK have been conveniently active in the process of the "Snooper's charter" Bill here in the UK.

    So, Tragedies like that what has just happened in Berlin will only hasten the use of INDECT technology into EU member states by demand, If it is not already.

    When it does, and I 100% beleive it will. How easy do you think the citizens of the EU will be able to get rid of it?
    Or even speak of getting rid of it, Especially on social media judging by the EU's demands of censoring it recently.
    ie Today's concerns may be tommorrow's hate speech or deemed "false" information by a future "Ministry of Truth"
    Slippery slope, very slippery indeed.


    On the subject of data collection, Some time ago I was going through a basic MoD Security clearance, I had colleagues that were going through a DV security clearance (The highest level and highest paid).
    Even back then the MoD could whip up your entire internet and comms history (along with family history too) while you were being processed for DV.
    The point of this being was to see if you would lie about or deny it's (the data) existence, Because if you did you are considered a security threat by means of extorsion, exploitation or bribery by an ememy of the state. Makes sense if you are being trusted with handling sensitive data.

    We have had this capability for many years, It's our National security backbone and I didn't have an issue with that.

    So based on that experience, For me, The Snooper's charter is all about getting things above board so that "lesser than GCHQ" agencies have the access to our data too.
    That, I DO NOT agree with. That is also a very slippery slope.

    Personal data collection of citizen's is another topic (or Trade product) that will be discussed around the trade tables of Brexit, This I am also 100% certain.

    Which brings me back to the OP topic directly, We are already deciding which EU laws will be enshrined into out laws pre-brexit, I wonder what UK laws the EU will enshrine into theirs, post brexit?
     
  4. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Isn't INDECT nothing more than a research project?
     
  5. perplekks45

    perplekks45 LIKE AN ANIMAL!

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    Whatever happens our privacy will be severely limited in the coming years, no matter where we live. Since I refuse to make everything that happen a terror attack, because sometimes people just go nuts, I strongly oppose the current move towards higher surveillance and easier access to our (the people's) data. Then again, as long as we let old people who wouldn't know how to turn on their monitor if pressed for it make decisions about internet, computers, or the impact of gaming.... well, what do we expect?
     
  6. Wwhat

    Wwhat Member

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    Yes, but obviously to be eventually used.
    It is however meant to sort of avoid the data gathering I gather.
    Wikipedia says:

    The main end-user of INDECT solutions are police forces and security services.

    The principle of operation of the project is detecting threats and identifying source of threats, without monitoring and searching for particular citizens or groups of citizens. Then, the system operator (i.e. police officer) decides whether an intervention of services responsible for public security are required or not. Further investigation eventually leading to persons related to threats are performed, preserving the presumption of innocence, on the basis of existing procedures already used by police services and prosecutors. As it can be found in the project deliverables, INDECT does not involve storage of personal data (such as names, addresses, identity document numbers, etc.).

    But we heard that before and it was exposed as a joke, the 'non-personalized' mantra thrown around so much.

    Amusing example in this area is that I once got a request to join an anonymous poll from local council, I could just fill in the form and drop it in the mail anonymously. Sounds fine, but then when I didn't do it a few weeks later I got a reminder that I didn't use it yet.. BUT HOW WOULD THEY KNOW I did not if it was actually anonymous?.. sigh.

    Incidentally, MS for one considers your IP (and HD serial number) 'non-personalized', regardless that it obviously is very much an direct link to you, especially if you use any kind of MS account where it constantly connects to MS with the same IP but then the same IP is linked to your account info and possibly credit card data.
     
  7. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    From what I've read about INDECT it seems a better idea than the current theory of collecting and storing data on everyone so they can trawl through it when they like, i think the idea of INDECT is to use threat detection algorithms to decide what data to store for later review by authorities and automatically dump everything else, a bit like the abandoned ThinThread program.

    Re: The anonymous poll: At a guess they probably sent remainders automatically as I've had a similar thing happen a couple of weeks after I'd returned the poll.
     
  8. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    Apart from the entire single market? :p I would say all the 95% of EU laws that the UK voted in favour of over the years. But perhaps the EU can now protect its steel industry from China, and can protect public health services from TTIP, both things which the UK blocked.

    What you need to be asking yourself is what will happen after the Great Repeal Act, when the EU changes an EU law that has been enshrined in UK law. Will the UK change its enshrined law accordingly to maintain the parity it was trying to protect by the GPA? In which case, what was the point of leaving the EU in the first place?

    Or will the UK keep its adopted EU laws in freeze-frame, until it has picked through them over the next few decades to decide what to keep and what to change? If so, are businesses going to be confronted with a situation in which UK law is a constantly changing mish-mash of current EU laws, increasingly out-of-date EU laws and gradually increasing replacement UK laws?

    This, of course, presumed that EU laws can simply be enshrined in UK law. Which they cannot, as they casually refer to all sorts of EU statutes and about 100 EU monitoring and regulatory agencies, all of which the UK would have to create its own equivalents for (and in some cases, like the European Aviation Safety Agency, get international recognition, lest UK planes cannot land at foreign airports anymore). But the government hasn't worked that out yet (although it did once let slip that it was starting to realise this).
     
    Last edited: 25 Dec 2016
  9. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Every government (regardless of EU or not) collects as much data as it can get away with and that will never change anyway, the only difference is that the UK has legalized it.

    Unless of course the background checks are handled by a bunch of bumbling idiots...

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...heck-backlog-losing-people-jobs-a3427391.html

    If authorities can't even be trusted with something as banal as criminal records, then do you really think they won't screw up with the use of collected communications data?
     
  10. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    And of course we all know government keeps our data secure and their handling of our data is above reproach...
    And then there's also our fine upstanding police forces...
    Although 800 police staff isn't indicative of our entire police force it just goes to show how it's all but impossible to prevent rotten apples.
     
    Last edited: 25 Dec 2016
  11. Wwhat

    Wwhat Member

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    You know what's odd? The EU had a 'strong advisory' to save all data about internet and phone communication metadata for 6 months to two years, that went on for a long time (years) until a EU court ruled it was against the EU rights to do that.
    At that point ISP's were in a bit of a bind with local governments telling them to collect data and the EU court having ruled they can't. So eventually I guess the local governments of EU nations changed their laws.

    Then a whole bit later the UK introduces the thing as if it's new and legal in the EU.. it shows the UK authorities have no idea what's going on nor what the EU rules are, or simply ignore them completely.
    And interestingly all the journalists and 'experts' also seem blissfully unaware of this whole history of the EU and data gathering.

    I really think the UK government is most annoyed with the EU protecting rights of citizens, and that all the other objections to the EU are red herrings. As are claims of many of them that they were against the brexit.
    But either way, the UK continues to be in the EU and bound by some basic rules as agreed and signed up for.

    But the EU is similarly being silly, when the court ruled that the US can't be trusted and thus the safe harbor thing was null and void they just spent a lot of money and smoke and made a new treaty which was exactly the same but with a new name, as if a name change suddenly makes the US become reliable and everything is OK. In reality the ruling applies to the new thing too but they just use hi-jinx to try to bypass reality.
    Politicians all over the world have the hardest time keeping to their own damn rules and oaths.
     
    Last edited: 28 Dec 2016
  12. Star*Dagger

    Star*Dagger New Member

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    The UK can not and will not leave the EU, even MENTIONING it in a serious manner makes the Pound lose percentage points per word spoken in that direction.

    1) No one in power has a vested interest in seeing the UK leave the EU, and no one cares what Pete and Jimmy (those two who spend more time at the local pub than at home) voted for in the referendum, since the common person in the UK couldn't explain how the EU works, much less make a capable decision on whether to leave or not.

    2) The referendum was *NOT* legally binding, which will give Pete and Jimmy's betters all the excuse they need to ignore their moronic votes.

    3) The Queen, yes she still has power and no she does not want to reign over the final dissolution of British power. Expect her to meet with May and make it clear that she will not give the Royal Assent to this idiocy.

    Any peasant who still thinks that Brexit is going to happen is going to be sorely surprised when 2020 rolls around and you are not only still part of the EU, but have an even closer relationship therewith.

    Carry on.


    http://www.theroyalforums.com/
     
    Last edited: 1 Jan 2017
  13. Isitari

    Isitari Member

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    You not read the news lately? The Queen is pro brexit...

    PS I'm very much a remainer so I hope you're right but I very much fear you're wrong.

    Sent from my SM-N915FY using Tapatalk
     

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