Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by arcticstoat, 20 Jun 2011.
Gaming does need to be brought in to line with how we treat each other IRL.
For what reason?
Actually I play on XBL more than PC, yet the abuse I've had on PC/Steam goes waaaaay beyond that I've had on XBL. So no, it isn't a 'console problem' at all. I mainly get asked for 'nekkid pics plz' on XBL, but on Steam it's more like death threats...
How did I know you'd find an issue with that? Don't worry about it.
Well you made a fairly big assertion, I'm just asking for some justification or reason you believe this.
I play games on PC and PS3, on PC I play Shogun total war 2 and AVA. in shogun I never have had any problem with insults. maybe its because of the gametype.
in AVA it's a bit more but the person insulting is generally kicked.
however when I see my little brother gaming I know were those insults get from. on PSN he would spam people because they are his nemesis, saying things that always refer to them playing as woman(I have no idea what that is)
on AVA he normally doesn't refer to gender but to hacking, I already said something about it quite some times, however me not being constanly around I know he keeps doing those things
Do you disagree?
I never said I disagreed and I wouldn't yet, I asked for a reason. You made a claim, now you have to justify it. That's how discourse works.
It has no hidden meanings, it is relatively easy to grasp. I don't need to justify anything, thanks all the same lol
Joe is somewhat right. Persecution of females online is wrong but i think people tend to look at things from the wrong angle. If you approach the situation as a consequence as opposed to good vs right then you'll thrive in the online world much better.
What good does arguing with a sexist/racist/rude troll about what he is saying is wrong? There is none. You are merely wasting your breath on a sack of extra chromosomes.
There are no "cyber-police" to protect you. You have to defend yourself. Defending yourself means that you stay quiet around these volatile people, you avoid talking (what do have to gain by talking to online strangers anyway?), you put as few hints as possible in your screen name, you ignore if someone starts spewing abuse at you or leave if you can't be bothered to take anymore.
Of course you can always "stand up for your rights" and argue to no effect as i meantioned before.
This issue is obviously an uphill struggle. So don't go running up the damn hill. Go around. Hit the flank. Stealth through it. *cloak engaged*
Not everything has to be dealt with with brute force. The internet is the best place to ignore someone.
Yes. Rep for that.
I never implied it had hidden meanings or was hard to grasp. I simply asked for justification, which you need to provide if you wish your point to mean anything. I could equally say:
Gaming does not need to be brought in to line with how we treat each other IRL..
Without justification both of these opinions are equally worthless. However I have not claimed the above, where-as you have made a claim, and therefore must justify it if you wish it not to be worthless.
Another great article, thanks. I don't understand some of the post's saying that this article is irrelevant for this site, utterly relevant I thought.
My opinion is yes, people are far more likely to abuse others in online games and on the internet, but these people are generally cowards in RL and/or are very young people with no guidance on manners or respect. Like others have said, a bit of trash amongst a group of friends etc, entirely different.
I play MMO's and I do not seem to come across it so much except for a few trolls in /general chat, but I have played a few FPS on the Xbox and was put off playing entirely. I'm sure that it's 100 times worse for female gamers than what I have experienced; not that it bothers me much, it's just I tend to not switch my mic on and join in if I'm surrounded by idiots thus diminishing the experience.
I have quite a lot of girl gamer friends, lovely people and great players. It would be a shame if other women were to be put off from playing or speaking online just because of some ignorant shits. The way I look at it I don't say anything online that I wouldn't be prepared to say in RL face to face.
Not really, let people trash talk if they want to , but there need to be better ways(more control) of stopping said text appearing on your screen. Trash talk can be just as annoying to those noticing it, as it is to those who it's directed at. It really is ridiculous tbh, that in many games you can't just turn off abusive or spammy text, like you can voice chat options.
Is this an Xbox only thing? I've never had any abuse on PC games.
I go with the non-profanity filled equal opportunity ribbing that could in no way be considered profane, degrading or particularly insulting to anyone. Mostly I discuss people's lack of experience (noobness) or lack of skill (a one handed maniquin could play better than you or my other favorite, you couldn't pour piss out of a boot with instructions written on the heel). Mostly I just interact in a mature way that I'd expect to do if I was face to face with a person, not anon over the internets. Personally I find the really obscene stuff annoying and offensive, but I guess as a guy I mostly brush it off and ignore it, though I've fired back at people who were being particularly profane to myself or others on boards, games, etc.
It makes me wish that more games would have some active moderation and rules of play to at least scale back the worst offenses.
All that said I give my wife crap about getting back to the kitchen to make me my dinner! Its a running joke because I do all (well, 90%) of the cooking in the family.
I once banned every female gamer from my alliance becausse they were taking all the attention and basically made the politics of the game uncontrollable with their endless fueds and bitching. I know, I know, generalising like that is bad, but it took me almost a year of trying and warning to come to that decision. Why bring that up at all? because there are multiple sides to this story, not JUST the female gamer thing, and girls aren't the only victim. They aren't even always victim, most gamer girls I know have a mouth on them that will make a sailor crawl to his mommy.
It's easy as hell to assume an identity online. Try to play and enjoy a game as an openly gay man. Or a religious man. Or an Atheist. Or a black man. Or a <enter sportsclub here>-fan. ANY recognisable bit of identity you display in these wastepools of human behaviour will be chewed on, swallowed, regugitated, and spit right back in your face. Actually, it's very much like real life, there are soccer matches in Holland where fathers can't take their kid to because of the hooligans.
Moderating won't help.
Yelling back wont help.
shutting up certainly does not help.
The only thing that helps is to just go somewhere else. To another server, another game, some place that better suits you. The community is as much part of a game as the mechanics, sound and storyline, so why not include that in your purchasing decision?
If that means you are "excluded" from certain games or gameplay experiences, too ****ing bad. You won't believe the number of birthday parties I wasn't invited to, i still had a pretty decent childhood.
Sony, Microsoft, and all the other major players should NOT, I repeat, should NOT crack down on this behaviour. Humans (esspecially teenage boys, but basically everyone) need their occasional outlet of anger, filth, brutality and random hate. The existance of this platform is a vital service to humankind.
Shall i end with a bad pun? Oh why not:
If you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
I really like the first comment "i hope you have a kitchen in that tent". Yes it's sexist, but it's also very funny
I had a GF that played online in various communities and for every comment like this she got, she got 100 more offering her respect and with gamers genuinely happy and pleased she was playing.
Whilst I wouldn't necessarily agree with some of those points, kudo's for bringing an opinion such as yours from one of the (arguably) most liberal countries in Europe.
You are absolutely right in that the responsibility isn't up to the corps, per se (except perhaps to remove some of their own hard-coded sexism quotes / animations); that responsibility comes from elsewhere and as much as I hate to cliche here, it really is down to both the parents (and by proxy, the environment) they are brought up in, in what's considered tolerable and acceptable, but also down to the general decency of the person themselves.
It's true that kids need to vent. It's also sad that they have to do so in such ways, and pitying to think that they think doing so, as they do, should be universally acceptable.
I think sometimes the other extreme is true though (from discussions with former guidmates, friends and certain previous posts)... I don't speak for them, but I think that for some, it's the sheer "difference" in the way they are treated...
If it's not crude profanity, it's the idolized followings of a lost puppy - either way it still lacks certain qualities. Concessions, praise, support because of a gender can be perceived as just as annoying.
Which arguably makes my entire point moot in itself - but it's trying to strike the balance.
Ie: No one wants to be abused, but no one wants piteous concession either.
Jesus, it beggars belief how many men have replied here with the sentiment (in so many words) "women just need to man up" without being the slightest bit aware of how utterly wrong (and ironic) that sentiment is.
Why should women have to cope with your nonsense? How about the men 'women up' instead?
That way we might all be treated to quality social interaction in online games which doesn't amount to a tedious dick size contest in a virtual locker room where any evidence of actual size is covered by the towels of internet anonymity. Hate to say it guys, but if you can only feel good about yourselves by belittling and insulting others the only thing you're doing is shouting out to the whole world just how little is hiding behind that towel. Get help -- better yet, get into a long term relationship and discover for yourselves just how long any self-respecting woman would put up with being treated like a foil to your enormous ego before taking the first opportunity to ditch you for the next man they meet who can treat them with a little respect and empathy.
Game communities, like any communities, are not and should not be the sole domain of those with the psyche of a pre-pubescent male with delusions of grandeur. I had thought we had eradicated that sort of bigoted nonsense back with the suffragettes but apparently some people missed that lesson. >.<
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