Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by WilHarris, 6 Aug 2003.
maybe you should rephrase the "world exclusive" "phrase" :/
Oh great , Innovatek are known to make tiny-hosed WC kits.
Please make a 1/2" hose barb version!
Many people buying this card will be hardcore overclockers with 1/2" watercooling systems already in their PC. Imagine what a big blow it would be to not have a 1/2" version.
I myself have 1/2".
Ok, look - we don't check every damn site out there, and for all we knew it was world exclusive. The important bit is that WE were very involved with Gainward and the development of this product, no other site was!
Any more comments on this matter will be removed.
Not wanting to pish off Blade, but i never liked the original ones, they weren't bad, jsut nothing special. Shiney but just a plain looking block, did very much like the back side retention bracket though. That had style, the rest not.
But as i guess months ago now, no way gainward would use it as it just wasn't a good idea to have so many intakes out-takes. Quite simply each extra barb means possible leak spots, not to mention untidy tubing. In a rig like that a memory upgrade or cpu remounting, replacement would be extremely difficult.
i think innovatek aren't a stupid company, they will see that their all in one kit stuff designed for the beginner, with small tubing ,won't be looked upon well by the only people who can afford, or bother to buy this card. If its not 1/2 i would be rather surprised. For such an expensive card, you hav eto limit the reasons for people not buying, and being able to slip directly into an exsisting watercooling set up is gonna be one of its bigger draws.
But seriously, stock in 8 days, at £622 i think, if they sell a lot i will be rather surprised.
Still a good idea, and pushing forwards to a point where plenty of hardware can come pre readied for watercooling, so not voided warranties, better reasons for watercooling to go mainstream watercooling overall dropping in price. Tis all good \o/
That's very nice IMO. It covers a huge area.
Will there be a Radeon 9800 version too? Now that would really be something...
Other than that, looks kewl. Can't wait to see how it performs.
Why aren't there any Bit-tech stickers on the waterblock?
Gainward dont make Ati products i think
Since you guys helped with this, i guess you would be the best to ask. Is there any chance we will see something like this in a stand-alone version? I am sure there would be a decent market...
Don't quite udnerstand that post, could you clarify it?
I love it
Quite funny as I was involved in this for a long time, and I find out about the final design from an image of the design in an overclock uk new stock e-mail, nice that no one bothered to give me a heads up about it....... how quickly everyone forgets hey
It needs to be understood just how hard it is to make anything like this, that is also production cost effective, (especially when considering the relatively low volume that will be sold). I have many ideas, but they were not necessarily possible to use or put into a production block set easily, or cost effectively. This is where a company like Inovotek can be a huge help, as they know what can be made and the likely machine time overall costing per unit, etc. The ideal I guess would be a general 3D card layout rethink to make waterblocks easier to design & fit, but as this isn't very likely in the near future, complex and intelligent block design is the only way. Through designing & making my one offs I can say from experience a complete card cooler, is a complex a difficult task if it is to fit and work well, especially if you want to cool both sides of the card with one inflow/outflow overall.
I hear the 1/2 tube thing a fair bit, but people wanting 1/2 tube fittings really do not appreciate the complications of something like this. Even if it could be designed to accept standard 1/2 barbs it would make the cooler bigger along with other undesirable effects like allowing enough space for the tube runs, etc, especially when part of the goal is in trying to keep it all low profile and as light as possible. The real factor however is that running it inline in a 1/2 system would be a very bad thing to do, as the internal dimensions dictated by the space limitations of such a block set will most likely cause major flow restrictions. Anyone considering a cooler like this should accept some form of flow splitting between lesser system blocks like NB, HDD etc.
It would be nice to be able to assess the Inovotek cooler, I'll see if I can get a faulty one or something from Gainward for evaluation.
I don't want to go off topic here as this is about Gainward's Cool FX, not my projects but as it's related I have been making a one inlet/outlet 5900U cooler of my own (one off), more of which can be seen HERE.
Do you think they would allow me to put it on a Leadtek 5900
Man gotta have one of these with 1/2"
Oh and has anyone thought of a VRM Cooling block yet
By the by Great Forums Bit tech
nice looking, my only concern is that with the memory and gpu all running in the same block the water is going to overheat by the last component, so the last ram chip or what ever comes last is going to get very hot... other then that it looks pretty c00l
Post 33 explains.
metarinka - I doubt it, the whole point of the metal block is that it distributes the heat over it. Yes, you will get hotspots but nothing too drastic imo.
WAter cooling doesn't really work in the way that it would enter teh gfx block at say 23C temp and exit at 60C. It will probably rise somewhere inbetween 2-8C depending on waterspeed and efficiency of block(guessing nubmers, but wouldn't really expect anything more).
With a small increas in watertemp though efficiency of cooling will decrease, teh chips are still running inbetween 50/60C and 100c or something, IE its still far lower and therefore cooling well.
AS for 1/2 or not, 1/2 bards and 3/8 internals or 3/8 barbs and 3/8 internals will make no difference when it comes to flow killing, but as most upper end budget guys will be running a 1.2 system, it will jsut make it a little easier to have an split in main line and connect this up, than with 3/8 barbs, which will mean adaptors and diff tubing and so on.
i think for them to sell any amount of money worth the investment, they need to jsut make it as easy as possible, £600-650 for something that will jstu slip into computer, orsomething that will take a lot of effort to intergrate, make system messy and not be the best idea.
The only upside to the gainward card as i see it is, that they will have to cover it against waterdamage in warranty. But , TBH most watercoolers don't really mind , which iw why a swiffy or dangerden block is jsut a cheaper, easier, quicker and cheaper solution(mainly quicker as people coulda brought a normal 5900 ultra for a while now).
On the 1/2 barb thing I tried to explain the reasons why it's not good, and neither would splitting it with a T if one side of the T just ran straight back to a rad / res / pump. You'd be better off splitting the 1/2 down to two 3/8 and running one through the vga the other through a NB block.
The water heat up will be partly cooling system dependant, but assuming good pump flow you would probably be hard pressed to accurately measure any noticeable temp difference between the inflow & outflow in one pass.
For instance in my system the coolant enters the CPU block at the centre and splits four ways on exit to all other system blocks via thinner tubing. I have noticed less than a 0.5C increases in temp between CPU block input to output. all the other system blocks together also add less than 0.5C in one pass. Now I'm water-cooling CPU, NB, VGA GPU & RAM, Powerfets, HDD & PSU and I get less that 1C overall rise with the system underload in one pass.
layout can be seen in this schematic
Going by the overall results I had with water-cooling past cards, I don't think you'll see huge overclocking performance, at least not without v mods, (and this was never my main reasons for doing it anyway), .V mods is where water-cooling really helps but I'm sure that most wont want to go down the v mod road, even if they had a very intuitive v mod article to follow
The one thing i think they really can do is too offer this card with higher voltage, and higher clocks than the other cards. For the cash, that would be a major draw, its more expensive be almsot £300 to other 5900 ultra 256mb cards , fine watercooling, but a swiffy block and good ramsinks qill be no more than £70, adda pump and rad and you can ge tthat for £130, so thats £170 exra worth of performance they need to be offering really.
Maybe they don't wanna garentee a card at too high clocks, maybe nvidia doesn't want a card that can outperform the next card in certain test with too high garenteed clocks p ), but higher voltage, or even a variable resistor onboard with detailed instructions.
Personally i jsut feel this card needs something more than jsut watercooling. Cos if thats all there is, its very overpriced.
It would be nice but I guess nvidia would frown on that, I seem to remember Gainward being speed freaks in the past and it was rumoured they were "told off" for announcing a GF2 GTS that was faster than a GF2 Ultra, before nvida had announced the Ultra. You got to love that way of thinking.
It hard to see how well this product will do, yes it's not cheap but putting aside the card expense, (as Gainward GS cards are always more expensive due to hopefully better O/C possibilities), making a water cooler like this on a small scale is just not cheap. If you make 500 of something complex it will be far more expensive individually, than if you make 500,000. There will be a market as some people will just want it for what it is and the cost factor will not be an issue at all. Whether this will be a big enough market remains to be seen. Regardless you still have to give them full credit for trying something this extreme. I look forward to trying one out
ps: I think Red anodised would look nicer too
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