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News George Osborne targets tech in 2015 budget

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Gareth Halfacree, 19 Mar 2015.

  1. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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  2. forum_user

    forum_user forum_title

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    Gareth you didnt mention any ills to affect the UK tech industry and you used the intro:

    "... unveiling a raft of measures which will have a serious impact - for good or ill - on the UK technology scene over the coming years."

    You mention 4 positives. What were the ills affecting the UK tech scene?
     
  3. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    The ill I had in mind is the impact of the Google Tax. Sure, the idea of closing the "oh, our UK arm makes no profit" loophole is sound - but if companies would rather exit the UK altogether than capitulate and start paying 25% Google or 20% Corporation Tax, that's going to be bad news for the UK technology industry. Likewise, tighter control over the nascent cryptocurrency market has the potential to strangle innovation even as it seeks to bolster consumer confidence and prevent criminal endeavours. There's rarely such a thing as an unalloyed positive! (In other words: every silver lining has its cloud.)
     
  4. forum_user

    forum_user forum_title

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    Are you saying Google would stop providing a search engine in the UK if they had to pay tax on their profits?

    They would still be profitable ...
     
  5. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    I think that I shouldn't have to pay taxes. After all, I could just go back to the Netherlands and then the NHS lose out on my valuable clinical skills.

    What? :p
     
  6. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    As the article points out, the Google Tax is not a tax on Google; it is a tax on 'diverted profits,' and Google just happens to be one of the bigger companies to use the loophole (the article also mentions Starbucks and Amazon as two others.)

    Would Google stop offering search services in the UK? Unlikely, as you could still access Google US. Would it close its UK office and stop contributing to the UK economy at all? Companies have done dafter things. Would Starbucks leave the UK? Would Amazon UK close its doors? Like I say, stranger things have happened - and while Starbucks is bricks-and-mortar, there'd be nothing to stop Amazon shutting its UK arm and instead allowing users to shop in GBP on its newly-formed Amazon Lichtenstein (or A. N. Other tax haven) website.
     
  7. forum_user

    forum_user forum_title

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    I think if Starbucks (spit!) ever threatened to quit the UK due to being forced to pay tax, then we should just wave them off (waves).

    What would happen? The great independant coffee shops would make a come back, employ the ex-StarSucks staff and pay tax as they did before being forced out.
     
  8. forum_user

    forum_user forum_title

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    I hear you, but I completely disagree. You think the gov would allow the worringly large Amazon to get away with that? No chance. Amazon would have to shut its behemoth warehouses in the UK to supply goods from abroad. Even if they did that, customs and excise would make a killing and people would get pissed off with having to go online and pay the customs charges with every order over a certain price. I see the announcements as positive and dont see a need to grab at straws looking to add a negative spin.

    (Added) and these announcements come at a time when we're (the world) still screwed by the collapse of the world finance industry. That makes these announcements very welcome considering the lack of cash and the need to slap some backsides.

    (Also added) as for Google offering the same services from afar, how long would that last for before the gov introduce more internet filters to stop the advertising revenues from being missed? I think the days of big business taking the piss are coming to a swift (years to go still, but in the scheme of things...) end.
     
    Last edited: 19 Mar 2015
  9. SexyHyde

    SexyHyde Member

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    This. The big multinationals killed the 'mom and pop' outfits, which would just fill the void if they left. I know I wouldn't shed a tear if they left.
     
  10. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    If a company (Google, Amazon, etc) aren't making any money in the UK (as if) then what's increasing the TAX rate going to do, an extra 5% of nothing is still nothing, I'm also guessing the bill for providing Wi-Fi access points in public libraries is a lot lower now we have less of them than a few year ago.

    The government of the day can propose as many schemes to boost the UK technology scene as they like but it's not going to offset the damage being done by GCHQ, damage that will have far reaching and long lasting consequences to not only the UK economy but the whole world.

    Not that this budget means diddly squat as whoever is in power after May's election is just going to publish a post election budget.
     
  11. David

    David Take my advice — I’m not using it.

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    The google tax thing sounds nice, but it's just more pre-election BS. Companies get 30 days to contest the tax, and then what? The government capitulates?

    At best, this will result in umpteen court cases that drag out for years - those companies don't mind spending millions on lawyers to save them 100s of millions in tax.
     
  12. MrJay

    MrJay You are always where you want to be

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    I have decided to stop paying income tax, NI, my mortgage, council tax. As an insignificant individual id have my ass loved tenderly in prison.

    As a multi billion dollar corporation I would have the power to influence entire governments which is wrong.

    Only really way is to vote with your wallet.

    *Posted via Kindle Fire, running Android, paid for with my Amazon credit card, whilst I sit in Starbucks sipping a coffee*
     
  13. megamale

    megamale Member

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    this.

    The devil is in the detail and we have precious little of it. How are you going to consider that the profit is "diverted"? How do you go over double taxation treaties? A French vineyard sells wine to Sainsbury's... who do they pay taxes to? Is it diverted if they pay French taxes?

    That's the thing. There are specific tax rules governing all this that are intertwined with treaties. You can't just go and slap taxes for fun on nebulous concepts such as this. Osborne knows it and he is just playing to the electoral crowds.
     
    Last edited: 19 Mar 2015
  14. forum_user

    forum_user forum_title

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    Which specific tax rules are protecting Google that the government cant reshape?

    As regards "pre-election BS" - every party is dishing it out right now, except the government actually cant dish out as much as the shadow party because the shadow party can give so little detail (and much more BS), and the government can only juggle the figures so far before making embarrasing blunders - so its mostly there in black and white to prove the economy is greatly improved.

    Labour.
    We will put more money into the NHS.
    We will borrow less.
    We will cut less.
    We will build the economy faster.
    We will get more people into jobs.
    We will extend your lunch breaks by an extra hour.
    We will say whatever you need to hear to vote us back in.

    But if people sit and think about the maths behind:

    we will cut less + we will borrow less + we will inject more money into the public sector = .......

    It does NOT add up. It is empty headed nonsense for the gullible (but heart is in the right place) voter.

    (Added) in an interview after the budget was announced, Labour (when forced to answer) said they would NOT change any of the major points. Because clearly the coalition know what they are doing.
     
    Last edited: 19 Mar 2015
  15. DriftCarl

    DriftCarl Member

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    That's fine, if foreign companies want to pull out of the UK because they don't want to pay tax then that would pave the way for UK companies to spring up and operate that lost service to the UK.

    That is however unlikely, no company is going to cut off their nose to spite their face.
    Say a company makes 1 billion profit in UK, and divert that profit to an offshore company that only charges 10%, if the UK forced them to pay UK tax at 25% then they are not going to pull out of the UK and lose 750 million pounds of profit for their company for the sake of the 150 million difference they have to pay.
    They will just end up paying it and negotiate tax cuts on various other things.
     
  16. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget that the UK is about to give Northern Ireland the power to lower Corporation Tax, which will make it as cheap to pay tax in the UK as paying it elsewhere.

    (at least in theory)
     
  17. David

    David Take my advice — I’m not using it.

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    The question is why haven't they already been re-shaped? It's either in the too difficult box, or the too scared to box. But, hey, let's dangle a vague carrot just before the election.

    You really believe that? Cor, I bet they'd love a million more like you.

    Hold on fella, this isn't a Blue v Red debate, don't get so defensive, and don't assume partisanship. This is about the relative merits of the sitting government's budget commitments and their very vague broad strokes plan to go after the corporate tax avoiders, if they survive the election. Clearly calculated to score points, based on little substance. And this right after the Chancellor claimed this would be a no nonsense honest budget. Yeah, a politician who is full of sh!t, hold the front page!
     
  18. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    International ones at a guess.
    The same argument can be levied at all parties, no matter who gets elected there's going to be a post election budget the recent announcements from all sides are nothing more than electioneering as it's going to be re-written at the very least in a few months.

    Nice party political broadcast. :duh:

    Taxes are the least of tech companies worries, most of them say they are considering leaving the UK because of state-sponsored hackers.
     
    Last edited: 19 Mar 2015
  19. Mr_Mistoffelees

    Mr_Mistoffelees The Lunatic on the Grass.

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    Satelite BB is all very well but, it is expensive and completely useless for online gaming.
     
  20. David

    David Take my advice — I’m not using it.

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    Yeah, a friend mentioned that to me - his brother had Satellite Broadband and said his ping time was huge (comparatively), and created latency problems in online games. That was years ago though, so I've no idea if it has improved any.
     

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