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Gumball 3000 Cancelled

Discussion in 'Serious' started by BioSniper, 6 May 2007.

  1. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    I'm sorry, but I'm not buying it. When I go to countries in which I know the local justice system to be less than "user friendly", I make extra sure to mind my behaviour and not piss them off.

    That, in my view, would include:
    - not driving down public roads at excessive speeds in an illegal race;
    - not leaving the site of a serious accident;
    - not secretly trying to leave the country just hours just after you've been granted bail.

    The behaviour of the drivers involved shows no attempt at taking responsibility. From that I might draw the reasonable conclusion that they possibly did not drive very responsibly either. I mean, they were participating in an illegal race. Do people need me to draw a picture?

    I see no reason why not to ban it. Given that the race has no official backing and pretty much every country involved has fined drivers or confiscated cars, I can't help but thinking that this one is on the wrong side of the law already.
     
  2. ArtificialHero

    ArtificialHero We were just punking him sir!

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    Got to disagree with you Nexxo. It's not an illegal race, it's a perfectly legal rally. The fact that some participants act outside of the rules and the law is not the fault of the organisers - competing of any kind is forbidden as part of the terms and conditions. The attitude of a good portion of gumballers is evidenced by Alex Roy, leader of the well known gumball crew "Team Polizei" who, upon hearing that drivers were driving recklessly in order to catch up to his M5, made it entirely clear to all participants that he would be "taking a leisurely drive" (here) in order to avoid this behaviour. You must admit that that is admirable behaviour.

    An independent journalist covering the rally from one of the support vehicles has stated "I don't believe that Nick Morley was engaging in wanton speed-freakery in Macedonia" (here). Maximillion Cooper, the rally organiser, has also stated that he believes Morley was driving "in the region of the speed limit". The article above goes on to assert that "the oncoming vehicle the [victim's car] pulled out in front of could just have as easily been a truck, and the world media never would have heard about it". As it is, not only is it big news, but despite the gumballers seemingly not being at fault, they are being summarily blamed. This journalist also essentially mirrors my own viewpoint, saying "I'm not calling [their decision to flee the scene] the right decision, but I'm not damning them for it either."

    At the end of the day, some people like to drive fast, gumballer or not. Some gumballers drive recklessly, as do PLENTY of civilians. No one has been injured in previous gumballs rallies, which is testament to the drivers' nods to responsibility.

    There is no way the gumball should be banned. If the drivers break the law, they should be punished as the law indicates. Harsher punishments for speeding and reckless driving are far more appropriate.

    AH

    Edit: again I will stress that I'm not suggesting fleeing the scene was a good idea, or The Right Thing To Do. All I'm saying is the prospect of being locked up in a Macedonian prison would be enough to make me think twice about sticking around. Let's face it, the justice system doesn't like gumballers. But even having said that, if I was simply driving in a foreign country like Macedonia, doing the speed limit, and a car pulled out in front of me and the occupants were killed, I wouldn't fancy my chances either. It's not just about the Gumball.
     
  3. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Let's get our terms straight. First: it is a race.
    Second: it is for performance cars. Hey, I see a theme emerging around the concept of speed...

    Third, although the Gumball 3000 website states:
    I note that it gets the repeated and frequent attention of the police. In the 2006 race, only two days in four Gumballers had their cars confiscated by the Bavarian police. All together a total of 44 speeding drivers had been warned and some of them ticketed. Note: this is Germany. Where the motorways have no speed limits. In response, one of the drivers brags on the internet:
    Responsible attitude, indeed.

    What about this year?
    So far so good. All part of the fun, right?

    I also note that on the official Gumball3000 website it states:
    My, aren't we the rebels. Ideal combination though: partying 'till late, drinking 'till dawn and long hours of high-speed driving in high-speed cars.

    If boys on the estates do this (and brag about it later), we call them "chavs" and "boy racers" and demand that they are taken off the road before they hurt someone. If a boy on the estate kills somebody in an accident and flees the scene, we want him imprisoned for life for the dangerous, irresponsible sociopath he presumably is. No consideration for his fears about how his socioeconomic status might prejudice the police or disadvantage his legal defense.

    But if you are rich and have a pretty car, I guess different rules (and morals) apply. You get to drive irresponsibly, you get to flee the scene of an accident, you get to jump bail, and everyone is just brimming over with sympathy for you. After all, can't trust those foreign cops... they're all corrupt, you know (never mind that you can afford the sort of legal defense that would cost several times that copper's yearly income). Not like us fine upstanding, speeding, fleeing, bail jumping citizens. :rolleyes: Give me a break already.
     
    Last edited: 8 May 2007
  4. plug_in_ross

    plug_in_ross What's a Dremel?

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    Nexxo for President!
     
  5. ArtificialHero

    ArtificialHero We were just punking him sir!

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    Nope. Your quote refers to rallies held as part of championships such as the WRC. If you want to get bogged down in semantics please feel free but I'm not up for it, and I'm not interested in having a competition to see who can paste the largest quantity of the dictionary.

    The bottom line is your fundamental point is flawed. A race is a competition. The only competition within the Gumball is for awards like "The Spirit of the Gumball" which is awarded for exemplifying the fun of the gumball (it's been awarded to ice cream vans in the past, for example, and in that particular case I believe the winner was the last person to finish the rally). There is no prize or award for going fast or getting anywhere first, and it's not encouraged by the organisers, and is in fact forbidden in the rules.

    I'm not being unrealistic, however. I understand that some gumballers treat these rules as a joke and drive recklessly or compete. These people are at fault. These people should be punished to the full extent of the law. Breaking any law that is in place for your safety or the safety of others is Not Cool. I am, in fact, all in favour of sanctions that increase the possible liability of the drivers taking part in the event based on its history. However, banning something because of a minority who take part is not the correct approach.

    See above. They forbid speeding. Those who choose to are breaking the rules of the event as well as the law.

    Well aside from anything else that quote quite clearly refers to the Cannonball 8000, which is obviously an entirely different event. This year's is in September.

    Putting that to one side for a moment, I'll deal with the sentiment of the quote. I'll repeat: I'm not advocating speeding or reckless driving. It just looks like a fun event.

    Your comparison with "chavs" or "boy racers" is a valid one. However, I'm not bloomin' advocating these people! You present a statistic of 70 drivers being stopped in Germany. I would just want some clarification on that one, as the tendency with gumballers who speed is for persistent speeding, and it's not uncommon for drivers to get pulled over 4 or 5 times between checkpoints. Therefore this figure of just over half the drivers on this years rally may actually be closer to 20% or 30%.

    To summarize:

    - It's bloody not a race! There is no prize for the first person to reach a checkpoint or finish.

    - I'm not advocating reckless driving or speeding.

    - I'm simply suggesting that, rather than punishing the creators of a very successful event simply because a subset of the people who take part act irresponsibly, why not impose harsher sanctions on that subset? Surely it's better to bring to justice only those who do something illegal.

    AH
     
  6. Bogomip

    Bogomip ... Yo Momma

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    The germany incident was always going to happen - they asked if they could go through germany, the germans presumably said yes but were gonna be on high alert and /anything/ out of the ordinary, that we can take you in for, we will take you in for.

    Thats why 70 cars got pulled over in germany and then got a police escort to their designated location.

    Also the autobahn isn't entirely free of speed limit as I am to understand - I saw a documentary on it a while ago and remember them talking about strict regulations with regard to usage, though this may all have been about something else :)

    I agree with AH here, 8 years and 1 death isn't exactly the kill crazy speed fest people seem to be trying to make it out to be (though it IS bad), especially as there is some discontinuity between stories as who actually caused the crash. I don't condone the running for the hills and not the speeding, but I do think its a good event and should continue to run.
     
  7. whisperwolf

    whisperwolf What's a Dremel?

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    Ok then one query. If the Gumball organises forbid speeding and reckless driving, are any of the people/teams who are given speeding fines and licences taken off them, banned from the event altogether?
     
  8. finboz

    finboz What's a Dremel?

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  9. ArtificialHero

    ArtificialHero We were just punking him sir!

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    Ha I hadn't seen that, clearly he has his moments. In the guy's defence he was under police escort - also to his credit he has just pledged $10,000 to a fund on behalf of the victims of the gumball crash last week. To be fair I'm not entirely sure what the fund will pay for!
     
  10. The_Beast

    The_Beast I like wood ಠ_ಠ

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    yeah it sucks that it canceled but what they do on it is illegal (speeding)
     
  11. Veles

    Veles DUR HUR

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    Theres still nothing to stop these guys attempting to tear it across Europe even if the Gumball 3000 is banned. It shouldn't be banned IMO, do you want to ban cars because lots of people speed and get killed in car crashes? The purpose of the Gumball isn't to race, but people still do it, just like how the purpose of traffic lights isn't to initiate a drag race, but it still happens.

    If people decide to be idiots and get themselves/others killed, then they have to deal with the consequences. Even if the Gumball was banned, it's not gonna stop rich people with nice cars driving over the speed limit, in all likelihood, an accident would have happened to these guys, whether or not they were participating in the Gumball. The only difference would be the press coverage, instead of "rich kids kill in car accident" being plastered all over the internet, it would be in the local newspaper instead.
     
  12. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    So, just a fraction short of the entry fee then?
     
  13. ArtificialHero

    ArtificialHero We were just punking him sir!

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    Er... yes?
     
  14. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    So they were happy to pay $15k to shoot round the EU for 10 days, but only $10k for guilt payment to the victims family :/

    I still think they should do Gumball, but as a journey across the world as a group of cars for people to have a look at and follow, not a race full of rich kid assholes.
     
  15. ArtificialHero

    ArtificialHero We were just punking him sir!

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    Well they weren't responsible, they weren't anywhere near the accident. Why should they pay anything at all?

    AH

    Edit: ... and FYI, it's at least £24k to enter, and it's more like a 5 day event.
     
  16. Fod

    Fod what is the cheesecake?

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    http://mongolrally.theadventurists.com/
    now this is a rally.

    london to mongolia in a car with an engine capacity no larger than 1 litre (motorcycles 125CC)

    complete and utter emphasis on fun, entrants are required to raise at least £1000 for charity to qualify for entry, and not a speeding ticket in sight.

    a uni friend of mine may be taking part.
     
    Last edited: 9 May 2007
  17. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    If it is not a race, why call it a race? Why not call it a "tour"? Why the emphasis on performance cars? You make a point about the ice cream van, but just because Eddy the Eagle got to take part in the Winter Olympics did not mean that it wasn't a competitive event.

    As for speeding: we can argue statistics all day but the fact is that a large number of participants have been caught speeding and driving recklessly, and they appear to be proud of it. In any case, it does not seem to change their behaviour. You can argue that so far, only one person got killed, but being lucky is not the same as being safe. Perhaps we need another few bodies to drive the point home.

    You argue that an event should not be banned just because of the behaviour of a few delinquents (although, in Gumball 3000's words, it is all about delinquency: mind you, aristocratic delinquency. That's OK then). OK, how about the organisers taking some responsibility and banning participants caught speeding from future Gumball events? Even football hooligans get banned from attending future matches.

    It is about group mentality. Ordinary football supporters turn into rioting vandals when they attend a match together. Most disturbingly, it is actually normalised; people just accept that it happens. Shopkeepers board up their windows, police is deployed, supporters tool up for a good scrap while talking about the "beautiful game". Similarly, the Gumball event normalises, specifically glamourises reckless driving. Aristocratic delinquency, remember? My feeling is that it either needs to drastically change its image, or be banned outright.
     
  18. Guest-16

    Guest-16 Guest

    Now that's EXACTLY what I'd want to do, cept try and make it to HK.
     
  19. tacticus

    tacticus What's a Dremel?

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    :O

    now that looks like just want i need to do
     
  20. cjmUK

    cjmUK Old git.

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    "to come or bring together for some common cause or action."

    There are rallies all the time in the summer. Classic cars, bikers, VW vans, 2CVs and Caravans (*******s - Ed.). People with similar interests meet up and drive somewhere. The gumballers are all interested in performance cars.

    If the gumballers want to do the same they can do. If they are caught speeding, prosecute them.

    Ban the rally? Why stop there? Why not ban fast cars in the media? 2 Fast 2 Furious anyone? Need for Speed: Carbon? Formula 1 even....?

    It's perfectly legal to drive fast in many parts of many countries in Europe, so there are plenty of legal thrills for the gumballers to have.

    Obviously, fleeing a crash/fleeing the country is deplorable and for that, the individuals involved should be punished severely. But not simply for driving a performance car.

    Personally, I'm more concerned about the damage to the environment that these cars are responsible for, and not the speed they can go at.
     

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