Has anyone been trying out the Korg DS-10 on their DS Lite? I received my copy last Thursday and have been playing with this exhaustive softsynth for the past four days. As a studio musician whose specialty is keyboard playing and programming, I'm amazed at the detail of the package. The filter, patchbay, pattern and mixer sections look and respond like professional kit. The modulation routes and patching options are shockingly good. Even the Kaoss pad can be used twelve different ways, and features a *record* mode so that filter sweeps and other such dramatic effects can be recorded into each pattern. Unfortunately, the DS-10 falls short of the mark in song mode. Beyond sixteen steps -- or a single bar of 4/4 -- you can't carry on playing an idea in real time. Linked single-bar patterns might work tolerably well for rhythm parts and drum beats, but sequencing a melodic idea is excruciating. Lines and parts that change over time are stupefyingly dull to program -- I actually have to write them out on music paper first just to remember the flow between each bar. I can't imagine what people who are unable to read music must do -- perhaps they record themselves playing on a pocket music device and then enter each bar of the melody after reviewing it. The tedium is stupid and completely avoidable -- all they had to do was allow through-composed sequencing. Not everyone is a pre-Matthew-Herbert DJ. Not everyone wants to write static one-bar loops. On the other hand, the pattern sequencer can be seen as the replication of an 80s relic: it has the same limitations as hardware pattern sequencers of the M-10's time (the Korg M-10 is the analog synth on which the DS-10 is based). Perhaps vintage limits were thought to be part of the vintage package -- though implementing kaoss pads seems contrary to that idea. Another problem is the DS-10's inability to export MIDI files, but I expect someone will hack the DS-10 ROM and allow us to extract MIDI information from save files, so that the arrangements we write will be transferable to our PCs. §§§§§§§§§§§ For a long time, I've wanted a small music sketchpad I could take with me on commutes and long trips -- something smaller than a laptop and far cheaper (in the event it's stolen). In the past, that meant a bound pocket-sized book of music paper. But that doesn't really work for electronic music, which can't be notated unless you're a glorified organist like Wendy Carlos. (I respect her work, but it consists primarily of transcriptions of traditional scores.) If the DS-10's sequencer were better, and allowed users to input levels, panning, effects, kaoss pad tweaking and perfomances over the length of a mix, then vacationing musicians could use it to write nearly any kind of arrangement. Consider, for a moment, how amazing that statement is. An inexpensive wallet-sized gaming device has been utilized by Korg, one of the best electronic instrument makers in the world for the past thirty years, to implement features found on their $3,000 workstations. Even the GUI on the DS looks exactly like the small window on Korg's Triton series. That's probably one of the reasons the DS-10's interface and graphics are so impeccable. Another reason is the touchscreen and stylus -- the DS-10's controls work even better for music than they do for virtually any game other than Trauma Center Under the Knife 2. For veteran musicians, touch screens and a styli have a prestigious and practical history: the Fairlight, Synclavier and the PPG made use of that very interface. The first two workstations cost upward of $60,000 in the 80s; the PPG went for around $7,000. In the 90s, when I began working in studios all over New York, those devices were still being used. I wonder what my 90s clients would say if I were able to go back in time to show them the DS-10 in action. If we encourage Korg by making the DS-10 a bestseller, I expect they'll develop the idea and give the next version a lot more features. Right now, Korg's app is breathtakingly tiny: It's something like 60mb. Far more features and sounds would fit onto that DS cart. At some point, I intend to use the DS-10, Elektroplankton and nanoloop on a client's album along with conventional pro gear. The DS-10's sequencer is ass, but every other section is so impeccable that I can picture entire chiptunes-like subcultures arising from its popularity.
Haven't seen this before but it looks awesome, probably not something I could get in to though really. I guess the I/O is fairly limited?
Do you like to play with knobs and analog gear? If so, then I guarantee you'd get into this app if you had a copy. Not in the songwriting or loop-queuing sense, perhaps, but as a way to toy with sounds. The DS-10's like a mini-Matrix 12 in that you can modulate nearly every parameter with another by patching it. You don't even have to know what you're doing -- the fun's in the result. Yes, the audio IO is limited to the DS's miniplug -- no way around that, really. MIDI wifi isn't implemented either, though I haven't found that concept to work terribly well with even the most sophisticated gear. Additional lag and timing issues -- just what a musician needs! What palls a bit is the DS-10's way of saving files -- no MIDI, no file export! -- which I see as part of Korg's master plan for a future upgrade path. All you can do is save or load to another DS. I've bought a copy of DS-10 to support Korg, but I use a ROM copy instead, since homebrew allows the user to save an infinite number of songs by simply renaming the files. You just know someone in the homebrew community is going to create a MIDI extraction utility for the DS-10's save files. I've looked at the ROM and the work seems clean and transparent.
I am new to both the Nintendo DS and Korg DS-10 but purchased both as am giving Korg DS-10 to both my young nephew and niece who love their DSs. Prestidigitweeze - some help please. Are you using a GBA slot memory card to save the ROM copy and if so which one would you recommend. I presume if one uses a slot 1 card you can only run homebrew software. I was going to purchase a Cyclo DS Evolution slot 1 as seems most compatible and well engineered but your imput would be appreciated. Also with the drum modules (and I am only used to using Simmons SDS7 noise, filters etc + samples or Nord Modular G1 patching approach) I can't get a reasonable Kick sound with what is offered; starting with pulse. my dumb but help appreciated.
Realised the drum tone frequencey / tone is in the note sequencer Well with further experimentation I've realised the drum tone / frequency range is edited via the drum sequencer page. The Korg Kaoss pad is actually very powerful when used in conjunction with the phrase recording facility as one can key in dynamic filter and note changes over the top of pre-sequenced rhythms by changing the parameters selected. Selecting different sequenced sections in the PATTERN section in addition to adding or switching out elements via the mixer enables one to build up sections of a track: intro, chorus etc. Now we just need some utility to send midi data via the wifi although feeding the stereo output to two preamp channels and then into my Mytek 8 192 converters should yield great results. Still at the noodling stage but I will try two of my API 3124+ channels and TLA C1 compressor pres into the Mytek when I return from Christmas.
SeveBC: So sorry for the absurdly delayed response! Next time, please PM me. I had no idea you'd asked for my help, since you responded four months after my last post. And even if I had been paying attention, your post was probably buried immediately, since most (not all) gamers couldn't care less about the DS-10. I only discovered your response because I was googling DS-10 MIDI extraction utility for a friend and the only real hits were for past posts of mine. I really thought there would be an extraction utility by now, and if the official non-homebrew version offered file transfers to PC, I'm certain there would be. The multiple kaoss pad interface is indeed powerful, and allows you to make two synths sound like six (provided you're clever about part writing, alternating sixteenth notes and the deceptive use of panning and effects). The best way to create the illusion of two-to-three contrapuntal lines using a single synth is to pan alternating parts hard right and left in the stereo field, with completely different synth timbres and performance dynamics on the kaoss pad. Your third line sounds more independent of the other two if you place it in a vastly different register (a very high or low part that is simpler and more sparing than the rest). Centering it helps to complete the illusion of independence, since your other two parts are panned. There's also an instrument bank where you can save sounds, which is also quite helpful. No doubt you've found it by now. The thing that made me stop using the DS-10 was the limited number of banks for saving files and the utter inability to name them: You have to guess whether or not you've used a bank (unless the number is out of sequence because you copied it from another place) and what it was used for. The result is that one wipes earlier tracks unless one is extremely careful, something no one wants to have to worry about with a device like this. The whole tenor of the developers was completely off: they created a dedicated music app with standard nintendo gaming limitations (no legitimate save files, no user-definable names, no MIDI extraction, either through the app itself or a dedicated utility). That was a bad move considering the detail and thoroughness of DS-10 in every other area. It's pro music software with restrictions on practicality that make it useless for professionals -- what were they thinking? Still, I have a few albums' worth of recordings from minijack to a Benchmark ADC. They sound absurdly good for the tech, but I can't do anything with the data. So, in answer to a question in which I doubt you're still interested: For file saving, you need to download the DS-10 ROM and buy a homebrew card and a compatible SD -- see gbatemp.net for options. I happen to use an Acekard2, which I picked up from [____] for >$20, and an A-DATA 8GB Micro SDHC Class 6 card from [____] for around $18. The entire project cost under $40, and the perks extend past DS-10 saves/transfers: you gain all kinds of homebrew music apps (including wireless MIDI), music players, text editor/readers and the like. Retrophiles will like reading books on the DS, since it feels far more like an old school paperback than does any current iteration of the Kindle. I haven't gotten wireless MIDI to work with DS-10, but it does work well with other homebrew music applications. Unfortunately, nothing else for the DS sounds as good as DS-10. The closest thing to it in gaming handheld software is PSPRhythm -- an excellent PSP homebrew music app. Unfortunately, PSPRhythm is exclusively pattern-based, like everything else. No software designer seems feel it's important to be able to through-compose on a handheld: frustrating for musicians like me, who studied composition and enjoy writing canons and fugues.
im going to try and get it for my daughters ds, im used to full-ish sized synths so it would be wierd getting the hand of it, i sold all my synths now, prophet 5, ms2000, sh101, other synths ive had are korg ms 20, jupiter 4 love the analogue stuff, my m8s just bought a roland d50 which is digital but seems ok-ish lol cheers matey take care
Just saw your reply. The part that made me chuckle was your referring to the D50 as some new-fangled digital device. In fact your Prophet, Korg and Jupiter are far more current in application, though I can see a place for the vintage late-80s sound of the Roland. It must have been fifteen years ago when I sold my D550 (and, sadly, all my complex original patches, which probably cost my studio/live clients about $1,500 in programming time). Coincidentally, my very first synth was a Prophet V, and my first synth gig in New York was with Orchestral Manoeuvres. I also played a bit with PIL. I also still own a Super Jupiter racked and, my personal favorite, a Prophet VS racked. Not counting mixers, dedicated effects, mics, analog compressors and sweetening, the rest of my gear is either digital hardware or virtual software. You've got me descending into nostalgic anecdotes, numanoid. Please indulge me for a moment (then regale me with your own war stories, if you like). ============================== I still recall working at Right Track Studios in NYC while ex-UK (the band) keyboardist Eddie Jobson was working on an Amway commercial in the next room. I'd never talked to him personally but knew he was there. One night, I walked out to the lounge and noticed his studio door was open. I worried that he might be listening to us, since I was self-conscious about his hearing me play. I returned to our room and kept tracking. Later, I returned to the lounge. To my discomfort, Jobson was now sitting on the sofa directly in front of our door and listening as the engineer played back my keyboard overdubs. "Is that bothering you? Too loud?" I asked while wincing slightly. Jobson grinned. "Oh, it's awful, you're deafening, I was about to call the authorities! No, in fact, I quite like what you're doing. May I see your setup?" Whereupon I stopped our session, brought Jobson in, introduced him to everyone and let him see my rig. He especially liked the timbre the D550 added to whatever other twelve modules I was fine-tuning (of course, this was in '92). He asked me how I got the string pad to be so full. I remember telling him I used true analog (the Super Jupiter) for bite and depth, the D550 for sheen and air ("hairspray," as our guitarist called it), string samples for the attack and a Roland digital-analog synth (the Jupiter 8, which had wave-drawn oscillators instead of the physical kind) for fatness. We then mixed and EQ'd everything to sound cohesive while filling up every bit of the frequency range that wasn't occupied by other instruments. Since Jobson seemed to want to linger (perhaps he was tired of writing his commercial alone), I flipped through a few of my D50 patches. Then we got to the factory presets and I showed him the one titled "Eddie Jobson/UK". Only half-joking, he said, "This is outrageous! I should be compensated!" "Surely you have been," I said. "Roland gives you free keyboards, right?" In those days, every musician I knew who played on albums professionally had some sort of endorsement deal. I had one (briefly!) with Korg USA, and our guitarist had deals with Fender, ESP and Korg USA, respectively. We could only assume that every keyboard manufacturer in the world would want a piece of Jobson. Apparently, they knew as little about Jobson's situation as he did about theirs. "They gave me nothing! Nothing! I've never had a free keyboard in my life!" Jobson said. I know it's a cliche, but my jaw dropped. Literally. "Jesus! So, the Synclavier in the next room. . . ?" "Bought it!" "All that stuff on the first UK album? Your violin? What about Allan Holdsworth's stuff?" "Bought it! I need someone to represent me, obviously." Growing up, I have to say Eddie Jobson was one of my early heroes. If he can start out as a classical musician, dabble in fusion and play with Roxy Music, I reasoned, then no one's going to prevent me, either. The idea proved right, obviously -- PIL's about the furthest you can deviate from Franck, Ravel, Bach, Hindemith and Shostakovich. But it amazed me that someone as famous and respected as he could be so inattentive to the perks we leeches coveted. ================================== Given your taste in synths, it's imperative you play with the DS10 Plus. You'll be amazed how much like analog it sounds and looks; the virtual patch bay and knobs will take you back. Since you're a fan of vintage synths, have you looked at the Prophet 08? I've considered picking up a variation myself. Edit: If you're on a budget but still crave a full-sounding analog synth with all the modern perks, Dave Smith's amazing Poly Evolver is the one that first made me aware of his return. You can listen to samples here. It combines true analog and true digital oscillators (and waves from the Prophet VS) but syncs them directly in ways that dedicated digital and analog synths never could be. It sounds far better than the Korg Wavestation, which was the direct descendent of the original VS (which I still prefer vastly to the Korg, as good as that one used to sound).
