Rant Have you been in an accident that wasn't your fault?

Sorry - all your toys out the pram behaviour don't change the view of the incident (all from your posts. I apologise getting 'R' plates wrong, but you admit approaching traffic lights way too fast. And blame the guy who drove legally (presuming its illegal to drive through amber lights if stopping is possible in NI). You admit to driving too fast to be able to stop, being arrogant and claiming everyone who disagrees with your viewpoint is dumm
, will not change the point that you have admitted you are GUILTY in this case.

Although I find all posts on this thread interesting, I think Krikkets talk of the banhammer is OTT. So I'll hop out of this thread

But when someone posts something exactly opposed to the threads title, its gonna promote some lively debate (and sorry thats all I can see .

 

Personally I think you'll find the only safe way to drive on ice is with spiked tyres and on snow it's with snow chains. Who's fault is it that the car wasn't fitted with the said safety equipment. It is a real pain taking an extra 2 hours changing from those to standard tyres and back again when the need arises to get to work, but when other peoples lives are at stake is there ever enough you can do to preserve it and take responsibility for it? I've learnt from experience that on ice and snow you are never in control of the vehicle, even with all the latest traction and braking technology. It's fate and probability.

 

ARE YOU ********** SERIOUS??!!!!!!

 

Well, considering I have spent the last 7 winters of my life attempting to perfect the art of car control on snow, ice (and sometimes water ) I hold a different opinion, Its quite possible to be in full control of a slide, and even to use it to your advantage. Most races you tend to drive out of your passenger side window instead of your front windshield. My race car might be specially designed for driving on ice, but I'd hardly call it state-of-the-art. Its pretty much just a 82' Camaro, with good winter tires, and some metal bumpers welded around the perimeter.

How ever, if your car happens to become airborne, I agree with you. with all of today's traction and braking technologies, Its just between you, the ground, and gravity. Until flying cars exist, no matter how much I've desired for my car to continue flying and delay the inevitable impact. Gravity hasn't listened to me yet.

 

In a fit of over reaction 'YES I AM!!!!!
I see you are not from England so you probably don't know, but our local councils are shite. They wouldn't even know how to prepare for a nights frost never mind a hard winter. There were three accidents on the Wessex way before the police decided to stop people trying to drive on it due to sheet ice, we ran out of grit after a week(probably another cut back on spending). I bet your country's local government's got the winters pretty much sorted as it's had to overcome these problems or get cut off for a long time? Not to mention the fact that your vehicle are twice the weight, size and power with tyres to match than ours.
I'll use my own little accident as an example. I was living about 38 miles from my workplace because I decided to take a job in the local free-ads and they didn't say it was a branch that far away. One early fresh(but not cold) morning last year about 5AM, I was just over half way to work in my VW Golf 1.6 Auto FWD when it started snowing a little(typical of the Great British weather, can be completely different from one county to the next). I thought nothing of it but as I got to about 3/4 the way it started to really come down, and I mean you couldn't see more than 5 meters ahead of the car. I got to a very steep road between Dorchester and Upwey near Weymouth called the Ridge Way(basically it was running up and back down a small mountain side). The police just got there to shut it down for obvious reasons(they're never that quick to respond normally unless its home time or there's a good chase to be had, but I put it down to my usual good luck). Now I thought that nothing was going to stop me from getting to work as I take a lot of pride in my job and it takes me to be in hospital not to turn up, so I'll just go around the Ridge Way through what my N95's built in Sat nav described as Martins Town, no probs. Got about 1 mile and because it was a back road I was doing about 5-10 MPH coming up to a sharp bend. Well the car didn't want to go round the bend because it was going down hill slightly, instead it wanted to go straight on. Not even a handbrake or opposite lock power-out would change it. It was the tiniest tree you could imagine but it managed to take out the whole left side corner, £700 worth, steering rack, strut, lower strut, drive-shaft and not to mention the bottom engine mount. Apparently it's designed to do that??!?? This was all because a small stubby branch off the main trunk got wedged between the tyre and the wheel rim(my good luck again).
That taught me that unless you are properly equipped or the correct safety measures have been taken, whether it be the steps taken by our councils or yourself, it's not worth the risk. I mean, what if it was in town and the pavement had people on it?
I should have taken the safest option and turned back and gone home as I didn't have snow chains and there was no way in hell that the authorities were prepared for this, I mean , how could they have known, even with all that technology and satellite weather surveillance eh?
I have now managed to get a transfer to a local branch because the cost of renting a place was too much in Weymouth and if I have to use pedal power or hike it then it's only an hour away. I don't fancy changing the wheels or taking off the snow chains every time I come to a patch of road that the council have actually managed to keep clear(and I mean a patch).

 

i have never seen anyone drive with chains on their tires. youre crazy.

 

It really depends on where you live. I am in Calgary right now and you don't often see chains. Or studded tires for that matter. When I was living in Grande Prairie (way north) there are places on the highway where transport trucks will pull off and put chains on their tires. This because there is a river valley ahead and without the chains they wont get out.
There is one river valley coming into town where you can see the spots on the road where trucks have spun out and dug up the pavement spinning their tires.

I used to drive a vac truck (40,000KG truck) and as soon as we went off the pavement it was chains on in the winter. Even with the chains on, there were times that we would have to get pulled up hills because they were too icy for the chains to work. We would get pulled by a tractor at an aching 10kph all the way up the hill.

Actually one time in BC I came across a sign that said that in the winter, snow chains were required on all vehicles. Cars, trucks, large trucks, you name it. (it was on the highway too, not some backwater road)

All that being said, winter in Calgary is no pick-nick. My tires are worth $1200cdn and are pretty much top of the line. I didn't get stuck once, but I have seen many cars and trucks in the ditch or just stuck in deep snow. And that's after they have salted and sanded the roads here.

Edmonton is just junk in the winter:

They maintain a snow pack on the roads rather than clear it off.

In my personal opinion, the most important thing in winter for winter driving is a good set of tires. If you are driving in conditions that your vehicle isn't properly equipped for, then get off the road. Plain and simple.

Edit:
Guess i should post something on topic... um,
not really. Was almost in a plane crash once. I was in the back seat of a Cessna 172 (small four seater) and up front was a student pilot and the instructor. Student was flying, and doing a crap job of lining the plane up for a landing. Not enough power to keep us going so the instructor said "I have control" which means he is now flying the plane. But what he really said was "I have control of power" and all he did was increase the engine power. But the student let go of the controls because he thought the instructor was flying. And at a low airspeed with a sudden increase of power the plane decided to yaw to the left and go into a left bank. All at 100 feet. The instructor grabbed the controls at the last second and we just missed the ground.
Fun times...

 

Some paragraphs and spacing might have made that legible but its another matter...


any way, Dude your in Bournemouth this year is probably the worst snow you've ever seen and it lasted all of a week, crap councils not with standing, there is no way you need or should use snow chains on lowland roads. The tiny layer on snow on the ground would not protect the tarmac from the chains all you end up doing is ruining the road surface and buggering up your chains.

If you want to give your self a fighting chance get a landy 109/107 nice chunky tires and a max speed of 50mph means you'll rarely have to worry about the snow. The lack of heaters means that you'll still have to worry about the weather...

 

It wasn't the snow that was the problem, it was the ice and the lack of action from the beginning by the local authorities.

Unfortunately I don't have £20,000 to spend on a short wheelbased truck and I don't think many others have either. I would certainly not be able to afford to pay £280+ a tyre, £13 a gallon for the fuel, £200 a year for road tax and about £1500+ a year for insurance. The cold doesn't bother me though as I'm a butcher by trade and I managed to put up with -12(with wind chill factor) for 4 hours, in my thin polyester trousers and short sleeved shirt waiting for the weather to get better so the RAC could tow me to a garage after the prang.

As chrisb2e9 stated and the message I was trying to drive home(pun intended), if you haven't got the money or your not willing to go through the agro of taking the necessary action needed to be safe then you should not take the risk and stay home.

 

I think the main point steveo was trying to make was that the spiked tyres you deem so essential are simply not viable in this country. The weather wasn't exactly that bad, certainly nowhere near as bad as Canada, so all that's needed for driving in those conditions is a little bit more common sense and cautiousness than you would normally apply when driving. There's certainly no need for over-the-top reactionary measures like spending several thousand pounds on new tyres to get you to work for a week. If it's really that bad then yeah, stay home, but it's health and safety nazis like you who bring the country to a complete standstill whenever it gets a bit chilly.

 

A bit of name calling now,that's very grown up of you aint it big boy?
That's defo not me. All I'm saying is if you're not prepared to use the right tools for the job, don't go blaming others when it goes pear shaped. I know those peps that crashed on the Wessex Way thought they were being careful enough. If you take a car on the road that you know is not 100% safe then pay the consequences when you hurt someone else or damage their property.
I know for a fact the country will survive if I can't get to work for a day or I have to make other travel arrangements that might be a little inconvenience to myself and take a little longer. I myself won't pretend that I am in complete control of the car in those conditions again.
End of.

 

sounds like someone is a noob driver.......

you'd have been pissing your pants if youd have driven with me a few weeks ago through the middle of a blizzard. now THAT was bad road conditions. ive never driven in worse conditions than that. it was horrible. next day pretty much all roads in the province were closed.

 

Dude, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but none of the cars on the road today are 100% safe. Even in perfect conditions. There's a reason you're more likely to die in a car accident than in an aeroplane accident. You take a risk every single time you go out on the road, because even if you think you are good driver, there are most definitely bad drivers out there, and there will always be situations in which the circumstances are beyond your control. It's all about how you adapt to the situation to minimize the risk to yourself and others. If you can't do that you shouldn't be driving at all, but if you can there shouldn't be a problem.

 

To anyone that has crashed into the back of someone else's vehicle, and claims that it was not thier fault, did you manage to convince the insurance company that it wasn't your fault?

I'm not talking about intimidating the person in front so that they admit fault btw.
I mean both parties are blaming the other, and the insurance company, police or courts, deemed the person in front at fault.

 

Sometime rear ending someone ISN'T your fault. But most of the time it is.

 

In case you are (still) referring to my accident, and just for the record (again), I narrowly avoided hitting the car in front of me. My impact was with a tree.

As for all this talk of winter tyres and chains and how to drive on icy roads.... well to be honest I can't even be bothered to write a response. Everything that I would have said on the matter has already been said.

 

Not exactly, i just noticed one or two people claiming that it's the responsibility of the driver in front, to make sure the person in behind doesn't hit them, and I was curious if anyone was able to actually proove that to an insurance company, or the police.

I'm not sure why you are telling me that? Are you suggesting that it was the tree's fault? Or you hitting a tree is the fault of the person in front who braked

Again, to anyone who thinks that it's the fault of the person infront, if they don't drive properly and brake unexpectly or just stop way too fast:

Let's say someone is on thier car license practical assesment, and they smash into the back of someone, or miss the car infront but smash into a tree, all because the person infront unexpectedly slammed on thier brakes, for seemingly no reason at all.

Do you think this person will:

1) pass the test, since it's obviously not thier fault
2) fail

 

LOLZ @ looking behind you when you brake, sorry officer I ran you over, the car behind me was too close, if I had braked he would of hit me!

You lamers, you run into the back of someone it's your fault, you should leave enough room whatever the conditions!