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Education Hello Rioters...

Discussion in 'General' started by Margo Baggins, 11 Aug 2011.

  1. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

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    Pretty much this.

    And don't forget about the other side of the coin. This isn't just about those of us in the discussion snacking on some faceless "other humans", we're all humans as well and are equally fair game. Something tells me most people don't like this idea and prefer to stick with animals.
     
  2. RichCreedy

    RichCreedy Hey What Who

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    exactly, and has anyone watched 'V' you never know it could happen
     
  3. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    Yeah, and just what is Soylent Green made of again?... :worried:
     
  4. RichCreedy

    RichCreedy Hey What Who

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    people yay i win, lol
     
  5. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    Those of us with will power can give up anything. I give up alcohol for months on end two, sometimes three, times a year.

    However, I've never found anything that tastes quite like a bleu steak. As such, don't expect me to give up meat any time soon.

    How very insulting of you.

    I must confess, you sound more and more like a hypocrite with every post. Whine when people are insulting towards you, judgemental, or making assumptions, and then continue to do exactly the same to everyone else.

    I think you need to break down the regularity with which you have head/colon interaction.

    For reference, my mother is a very good cook.
     
  6. Da_Rude_Baboon

    Da_Rude_Baboon What the?

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    Your reasoning is overly simplistic. Yes we did indeed kill all the natural predators of deer except the big one. Us. We have also completely changed the landscape of the UK and the habitats of every animal living here with us. We cull the red dear population before it reaches a size that leads to starvation, disease and the animals becoming a pest. If we were taken out of the equation there would not be a balance, the population would just grow until it ate all the food then starve.

    Again I don't understand your logic. If one of the animals under your care is suffering to you euthanise it or do you let it die naturally regardless of any suffering? The actions you wish to take would lead to the slaughter or suffering of millions of animals. Animals in the wild die from starvation, injury/disease or are killed by predators. Domesticated animals released into the wild die the same away but normally a lot faster as they have been bred to maximise certain characteristics over thousands of years.

    Compare that to the life of animal on well run UK farm. They are well looked after, kept safe and healthy and allowed to exhibit natural behaviour. When the times comes to be slaughtered they are transported to an abattoir (with more room that a human passenger gets btw) where they are stunned then have their throats cut and are bled to death. A death designed to be as quick and stress free as possible.
     
  7. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg What's a Dremel?

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    There is also the issue that very few predators exhibit cannibalism in and when they do it is specific circumstances, a male lion taking over a pride may eat the the previous males off spring. This is not culture or upbringing this is evolution. Thats not to say they wouldn't kill each other in competition they just would rarely eat the now expired member of their species.
     
  8. Otis1337

    Otis1337 aka - Ripp3r

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  9. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    See what I mean about smug?

    The guy is horribly condescending. As if people don't know what a slaughter house is.

    And there was me thinking that there was no place in heaven for animals, regardless?

    He's the embodiment of everything I hate about vegetarians/vegans. They want to make their choice everyone else's choice - Frankly, to hell with that.

    You want to not eat meat, go for it. I'm not going to stop you. However, if you want to take my meat away because you think you know better than me, you can get ****ed. Right in the eye.

    His bit about "OH LOOK THEY ADVERTISE MEAT AND OTHER THINGS TOGETHER OMG MEAT EATERS ARE DYING" is ********. I've been eating meat all my life, and hey, guess what! I'm perfectly healthy.

    This crazy thing called moderation is killer.

    The way he talks about how "You used to like animals" makes me seriously ****ing angry. Do I hate my dogs, my chameleon, my praying mantis because I like meat? No.

    "Speciesism" isn't a word. I can't take him seriously when he says that.

    A lot of that looks like battery farming, which I understand is completely illegal as of 2012, after a ten year phaseout in the UK. You're not going to win me over with that.

    If you ask me if I think animal welfare could do with improving in some countries, I'd say yes. Do I think that animals should be removed from my plate? No. Take things away from me with no reasonable substitute (No, existing vegetarian options are not reasonable substitutes, they taste like crap) and I will not be very chuffed with you.

    Reduce the demand on the meat production chains, such as banning shitholes like fast food joints, "value" meat etcetera.

    I had to stop there (30:00), because I'm going home.
     
    Margo Baggins likes this.
  10. Margo Baggins

    Margo Baggins I'm good at Soldering Super Moderator

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    also - he makes to many connections to religion. Im not a religious man. There fore the fact killing an animal breaks one of the ten commandments - thou shall not kill - means nothing to me. Im not saying I would kill another human being, I follow my own moral code which I guess is a combination of my upbringing and own experiences. But to me it kinda detracts from the strength of his argument. But I have/would/will kill animals. I was raised in the country side, as a kid I used to be a pheasant basher, and after a shoot I would pluck and butcher animals, and then in the evening we would eat pheasant. And I used to shoot alot of rabbits - for when my mother wanted to cook rabbit. Also - it was important to control the rabbit population in our fields as otherwise they would pit the fields too much which actually endangers the life of our horses. But every rabbit I ever killed (health permitted - ie. not suffering Myxomatosis) I gutten, skinned and sold to the local butcher - therefore making myself a bit of money, and feeding people in my local community. But also that asks the question - Is relieving a suffering animal of its pain ok? Look up myxomatosis - its a horrible existence.

    See - I appreciate you have your own moral code, and for you that is something that you find completely disgusting, as you like the animals (as do i), but i cant see how you are too short sighted to see how there is an incredible amount of merit and good in those actions.
     
    Last edited: 19 Aug 2011
  11. walle

    walle Minimodder

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    Try look at them as moral instructions instead. Thou shall not kill - a moral instruction. The instruction is clear.

    There is NO duality there.
     
  12. KayinBlack

    KayinBlack Unrepentant Savage

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    Actually, God COMMANDS them to kill animals. And the Ten Commandments rule only applies to humans. The word choice there in Hebrew is pretty clear.

    Not this again *facepalm.*
     
  13. Sloth

    Sloth #yolo #swag

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    You know, I'd always wondered as a child whether my pets would go to Heaven. Shame all my cats loved hunting. Looks like they won't make it. :(

    I figure if there's so little distinction between humans and animals they may as well follow some commandments.
     
  14. longweight

    longweight Possibly Longbeard.

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    Yayyyy religious debate! Can we have some non-sensical contributions from all viewpoints please? I realllllllly want to get to the bottom of whether Jesus won or not?
     
  15. walle

    walle Minimodder

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    Marcus Aurelius. A Roman emperor and stoic philosopher. Laid it all out in his book, "Meditations". 2000 years ago. And in two short sentences.

    "If it isn't right, do not do it. If it isn't true, do not say it"


    I hope this brought things back to morality leaving no room for religious discussion. If not I suggest we all visit the EPIC thread, and continue there.
     
  16. RichCreedy

    RichCreedy Hey What Who

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    i am not religious, i don't believe there to be a higher being
     
  17. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    >gasp< Blasphemy! You deny the existence of Relix?!? :eeek:
     
  18. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    It is actually, and your inability to take him seriously is due to your ignorance, not down to the lack of validity of the concept, which is widely accepted now in ethics and moral philosophy.

    That said, the guy in the video is intellectually dishonest, or stupid, and either way is an asshole.
     
  19. Da_Rude_Baboon

    Da_Rude_Baboon What the?

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    He falls into the bad science trap of cherry picking evidence to support his argument. Unfortunately animal cruelty does take place on some farms and inside some abattoirs but that does not make it the norm or acceptable.
     
  20. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    I stand corrected. I should check OED before I make claims about words!

    Thanks for calling me ignorant for not knowing a word, too, that was charming <3
     

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