The "Evil Guy" is used as in example and in this thread not a particular person, but just a tool to aid my posts. but it was along the lines of maybe a Fur shop owner? or maybe someone that use's children from poor country's to make there products where they get little to no money and have a miserable existence who maybe even also trafficed? or a raciest Nazi seeking political power? No matter how much people like them put into what they do, does not warrant it to be ok and is mad to think so. Hitler put alot of work into his madness, but didnt make it ok did it. People here are starting to but words in my mouth to again, to make me look like a bad person, i did not at any time brand all business bad or evil.
such as? anyone that my activism is aimed at deserves it, and would have proof like i said to back it, or they have openly admitted to. Most... as in most of the people in this thread, one person has told me they do some work to teach the old how to use computers.. which is great, and helps people no end, but still... my point stands
So none of the components in your computer use parts made by Foxconn? You can trace the material path of everything you own? Surely boycotting a capitalist system is the best way to bring it down? You said evil guy without any direct target so we are perfectly ok to use our imaginations as to who you meant and in what context. No one put words in your mouth, Maybe you need to talk directly to the child labour driven, nazi owned furr shops?
First half of that seems to be relevant (and funny). I fed several hundred people today (as with many other days right now). The other day I helped produce the meal for the most important day of some couple's life. Hitler thought he was being perfectly rational and reasonable. So do you.
Had similar dissections meany times, at no point to a pretend to be perfect, or be a beaming example of a perfect human... not at all. There are simply things i want to change, that i think need changing for the best of us all, not just my self or animals... everyone. I dont own any Foxcon products, but didnt know they where bad.. but please enlighten me on them if you like as i would be genuinely interested...
I don't want people dead lol. Just show people what goes on behind closed doors and expose people/companies for who they really are... but only if they deserve it. 2 people in this thread now then, not including my self... out of 29 different posters in this one thread... still, my point stands
China produces the most coal of any country in the world, India produces the third most after the US. In China, the safety standards are so poor that there is a death rate of about 15 deaths per 20 days. Don't even get started on India... 1/3rd of power generated in the UK is generated by coal. Dirty, nasty, polluting, blood covered coal. Don't bother saying things like "didn't know they were bad". Everything is bad if you look hard enough. We're too interconnected for the sins of one group or company to not be shared by us all. Either fight capitalism, or change your moral system away from sucky stupid utilitarianism. You want to apply your choices to others though. I'm fine with exposing what goes on behind closed doors, and not just with companies which "deserve it" but with all of them. Not really, because most of the people in this thread probably have a job, and while I'm not "having a go" as they say, since I myself was unemployed, I think it's important to recognise the fact that in general someone having a job enables other people's lives to be better.
I aim for realistic goals, that can be changed in my life time, a small change in my life time is still a victory, big or small. I dont like capitalism, i do what i practically can, but admittedly, not everything i can in that subject because i have animals as my priority, its what i feel strongest about and what im best at and i feel they need help more than anyone or anything right now, and also there are still a great number of people that are alot more active in anti-capitalism and other subjects than me, its a group effort, one struggle one movement, i cant do it all im sorry. But as iv said before, i dont wish to say what i do or dont do... People that do the same line of activism as i do also have jobs, some of them full time, some not, and still do a great deal to help. Jobs or not, does not make a difference in activism, just have more time on my hands to do more of what i already do. Yes and no, paying more tax by having a job gives the government more money to invade more country's for oil. Just saying. You think we would of helped out the rebels in the middle east if they didn't have tuns of oil? i don't, just like we don't help alot of places that are in similar wars what we cannot benefit from because the country is poor and has no resources we can steal, or has so little it isnt worth the governments time.
I think your ethics lack central coherence and above all, wisdom. You label people as "evil" on hazy, superficial ideas. You think it is OK to impose your values on other people. You think that you have some special insight and contribution to the human condition. You have no idea what taxes are for. You sound like a politician. C'mon, son. You are not fourteen anymore. Step up to the plate of adulthood, and learn about this world around you before you start casting judgement on it. Just because you can make a noise doesn't mean you have anything to say. And above all, stop talking about people here as if they are self-centred idiots. You have no idea what difference other people make in this world. By the way: I'm a cancer psychologist. I help people and their families cope with cancer. That may include the whole death and dying thing. I work about 8 hours unpaid overtime a week, do additional training, lectures etc. for charities in my spare time. Tell me, does that job qualify for you as making people's lives a bit better? You will find that many people on this forum do more charitable, noble and constructive things than that and don't make a fuss about it or expect recognition for it. "Do good by stealth" --Alexander Pope
Would you like me to label a specific business as evil? how about the Canadian seal cub beaters, or the Chinese animal skinners or the British fox hunters... the only reason i didnt use a example is because i didnt think i needed to, and that people would know bad things going on that they knew had active movements against. not at all, the info is easy to find if you look in the right place's. Or some times its right in front of out you, but people turn a blind eye. not aware i was, and if i was, im sorry... but its hard not to hit back when im been attacked by multiple people. I do know what tax's are for, and understand war is only a part of it. but still a part that i dont think should spent on in the way it is or how we go about it. Im fully aware that im poor at arguing my case, but im not the person that normally gives the speech's or what ever, i leave that to the people that are best at it and much better than me at it. I cannot see what is so wrong with been an activist, im tiring to change things for the good, look at black rights, been quite would not of gotten them to where they are now, they shouted about it, and protested... now look, black president, protesting works, activism works. Gandhi was an activist, Mandela was an activist... im sure i dont need to go on. Activism is needed because we cant rely on the government to make all the right decisions, and if you dont like activists, move to china where its illegal to be one.
I agree with nexxo, if you really want to help you need to have a more coherent argument, I am all for animal welfare and I give £30 a month to animal charities, a fiver each. It's not loads but it is all I can do. I always try to have a coherent argument and to avoid general statements. If you care about your cause I think you should look into other ways to help animals, is activism the most efficient way to help? What about volunteering for the rspca to help abandoned animals? Just an idea I have no idea how possible that really is. I think the strong responses to your posts are due to the assumption that we are all unhelpful and selfish, that may not be your intention but it rubs people up the wrong way, maybe be a bit softer in your approach? Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
Ah, well, do you refer to Inuit seal hunters, who have been doing this for 4000 years as a vital part of their subsistence, or the fishermen for who seal hunting can constitute a third of their annual income? And fox hunting: yes, pretty nasty. But the Burns Inquiry also identified that between 6,000 and 8,000 full time jobs depend on hunting in the UK, of which about 700 result from direct hunt employment and 1,500 to 3,000 result from direct employment on hunting-related activities. This is not to condone seal hunting or fox hunting, but it occurs in a bigger picture of ordinary people trying to eke out a modest living. Not evil; stupid, perhaps. or desperate. Those people do not need to be told what they are doing is evil. They need to be shown better, alternative ways of making a living. First lesson in activism: understand your opponent first, judge later. There is your second lesson as an activist: diplomacy matters. Be prepared to meet with confrontation and aggression, and know how to handle it calmly and wisely. Third lesson for the activist: be prepared to argue your case eloquently and persuasively. Any time, any place. Ranting just alienates people. Activism works if done well. If done persuasively, non-defensively and sensibly. Nothing has done the case for animal rights as much damage as PETA. Who would want to be associated with those nutters? Only people out on the fringe. The sensible activist knows that they have to win over the middle-of-the-road, ordinary-Joe majority. No, they were smart activists. There's a difference. Terrorists think that they are activists too. Gandhi and Mandela were very mindful of how they came across to the public and they managed that carefully. Don't get aggressive. Be persuasive. Don't alienate the people who you are trying to win over. Make them feel empathy, not guilt or defensiveness. The worst thing to do is tell people that they have to clean up their act.
£30 is a considerable amount, great stuff! I never said the things i do within activism... i could be an activist and never of said a word out side this thread... you dont know RSPCA can be plonkers to put it lightly.. they do alot of good work dont get me wrong, but they put healthy animals down after just a few weeks of been homeless, and will also take on animals they have no idea how to look after and taken from there owners without good reason. I know someone that had there bird of pray taken from then because it was >suspected< of been an illegal breed or something, where it was taken to a dog kennel.... they didnt know where else to take it and then it died after 3 or 4 nights due to stress and numerous other reasons.. if you give them money im not saying to stop giving them money, they do good work as well and have alot of power to take animals from there scum bag owners that abuse them. again they do good work, but i get the impression they prioritize making money over the animals sometimes.. my personal opinion tho..thats all. But i do help out at an animal sanctuary that is non profit, and other similar things like that.
I guess they have to take a practical approach to how they spend the money so some animals have to be put down... I know I don't know and that is why I tried to phrase it in such a way
I'm glad you mentioned that, because that is a nice example of exactly what I'm talking about. You are basically saying that the RSPCA may have their heart in the right place, but as activists (so to speak) they are pretty shite. Because they are not sufficiently informed and do not think through the longer-term implications of their actions and hence possibly end up doing more harm than good. Every activist is at risk of doing that. If you are going to meddle in other people's affairs, no matter how well-intentioned, you better know what you are doing and make sure that you have them on board.
your right, but its still prioritizing money over life, and there sitting hundreds of thousands of pounds if not millions so im told [i cant back that up right now, but will try if asked]... There are other similar people that im sure you wold of heard of that even use the slogan "we never but a healthy dog down".... but the RSPCA have different policy's per county as far as im aware so isnt true for the whole of them, and sure not the majority.
finally something we can agree on, but i said from the very beginning, We [or at least groups and people i involve my self with, im not going to speak for the whole movement, that would be silly] obtain proof and the fact's before moving onto other steps, and the first step is never shouting about it, or going out holding signs and posters, going on march's that is almost a last result. writing to the targeted people asking them to stop what ever there doing, writing to the local council and MP's ect... is normally the first steps.
I don't know anything about how they operate but I would put it that they spend the money to get the maximum effect.... I really don't understand some attitudes to nature, how can fishing for fun be ok? It is ripping a hole in a fish's (fishes?) face and then pulling the poor fish out of its environment, suffocating it and then throwing it back. How is that not cruel? I understand fishing for sustenance but to throw them back? Really doesn't seem nice, I know there i no evidence that they have a nervous system and therefore have a similar response to pain as us but that is no reason to think it is ok.
fish and other sea life do feel pain: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2983045.stm http://www.livescience.com/7761-fish-feel-pain-study-finds.html http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2009/03/27/crab-lobster-pain.html
