Motors How I wanted to be like GOO, and then became more awesome

Hello everyone, I just brought home a 1967 Pontiac Catalina 2 door. Which makes me ever so slightly insane. But, there is a story here. I thought you all might be interested. When GOO started building Viki, I was at that start of planning a Lotus 7 scratch build. From welding the frame through racing it. There have been a few iterations of donors and exact dimensions, but it was going to be a Locost. That plan was was egged on everytime GOO posted an update. Then, my wife suddenly wanted something more....concrete, which led to awesomeness.

First a bit of background: Way back in 2007, God smiled upon me, guided my wife out of consulting and into the employ of a car manufacturer. Given the number of questions she had, I suggested we buy an older car and slowly work through it. You know, for the educational value . And she went for it. We were living in Dubai at the time and sadly only had a car port. Between the heat, humidity and dust, there was to be no car. We then moved to South Africa, where we kept an eye out for a victim, but given the import duties on parts and scarcity of interesting cars; I channeled my Man interests into blade smithing. A little over a year ago we returned to the US after a decade abroad and for the first year we barely mentioned the car. Turns out this was a wise move, since we only were in Atlanta for 11 months. In January we were relocated to Bowling Green, KY. And we made a condition of buying a house that there be a 3rd garage bay for a project and a fenced in yard for the dogs.

Since my Wife wasn't so keen on a scratch build I got onto Craigslist and the HAMB. At first I was looking at a '53 Pontiac shell in WI. but that was a lot of work and driving for just a shell. Then I was looking at a '42 Chevy Business Coupe, but it was pricey and had no engine. Then, I spotted Gabby. It was close by, and reasonably priced. I called and arranged to test drive it. It.Was.Fantastic. I was smiling for days. We closed on the house and the next Monday we bought the car. I still bought a welder, but a scratch build was on hold indefinitely. Not even GOO's build could match the sheer crazy of a '67 monster. I mean, no joke, the car is 18ft long!

Here are the 3 pics off of the CL ad that caught my eye. The angry chicken front, the swooping lines and the long trunk line.



It ran, it was local, had a clear title, and was reasonably priced. But here is the part that will probably raise a few blood pressures here, lol: we have never worked on cars. Oh we know about cars, and we know how things work, but we have never done it. I can tell you that intelligence, passion, the ability to follow instructions, and connect dots gets you a long way. So we aren't put off by the work, or having to figure everything out. I mean, seriously, how hard could it be?

Every project needs a vision and a plan or else it wallows in bad primer hell and never gets done. Our vision is two fold. 1.Get the car into safe, daily driving condition; learning every step of the way and have a blast doing it. 2. Start into a larger scale restoration, with classy and correct upgrades along the way.

There is a small time issue as well, we simple aren't sure how long we will be living here or where we will be assigned next. We assume we will be here in Kentucky for 2 years. So, we don't want to do a frame off restoration and be left with a mess should we have to move suddenly to China or where ever. The longest we want Gabby out of commission is during the engine rebuild, which is planned for the winter or 2013/14. Long term, we would like to have disk brakes up front, an updated suspension, and a rock solid engine that can move her with a delightful noise.

The start? Well she has drum brakes on all 4 corners. The pedal is very stiff and there simply isn't the corresponding braking action. (yes they are drum brakes, but I know they can work better. right now she needs a 1/4 mile to stop.) So we'll be rebuilding the drums and cylinders first. Then the suspension with new shocks and (if needed) new coils. Right now when you turn left, out the right you can see the ground. A lady her age shouldn't have the indignity of wallowing like that. After that, new wheels and tires. The ones she has barely hold air and are cracking. I know this will need 15" wheels, but she really needs modern shoes. A V8 like the 400 deserves better then the trailer tires she has now.

Then she will be insured, registered and hopefully driven a bit while we get ready for the engine to come out. As I pulled her into the garage, she spit some oil out of the left hand exhaust. That has me worried, and thinking the engine might come out sooner then winter. Update: she is insured and registered. I drove her to get a full fuel tank the other day, in the rain no less


So here is what I do know about the car. It was made in NJ in the first week of December. It was bought in 1967 driven a bit, and then sat in a car port for 30 years in NY. The wife of the owner finally passed in 2002 and the kids gave to the red cross. They in turn sent to be crushed for scrap metal. Luckily a guy at the yard bought it for next to nothing and changed the oil and occasionally drove it. At the time of that sale in April 2002 the milage was recorded at 24,800 miles. He recorded milage and basic maintenance. The last log was an oil change in June 2008 at 35,860 miles. It came with him to KY where it moved to the last owner, who wanted to hot rod it, but ended up raising 2 of his grandkids and had no time or funds. And yesterday, she had her title transfered and drove to our new home. And that is where we are now. I'm told that the 37,600 miles are all original. That's pretty good for a 46 year old car. I do not know if the engine was ever rebuilt, but it's looking rather nasty, so the assumption is not.

I want to know more about her. I *think* she is a 400cid/6.6L with a 2 brl carburetor. I know she is a 3 speed, the TH350 I assume. She's a B body. She has a bad paint job at the moment, but is the original color underneath it. There is AC and PS, no brake booster. Can anyone fill in anything based on the plate in the engine bay? Update: I have some of that deciphered now, but not all of it.



And given the dearth of parts for this car, can anyone tell me if the other B bodies of the same year have parts that can swap out? It seems www.opgi.com has the Bonneville listed together with the Catalina often. Is it a safe assumption that they share steering and suspension parts? Update: Most full sized Pontiacs from this era share the underpinnings, just differing in wheel base length.

I hope you all will stay with us as we start this exciting journey as we learn, grow and reconnect with American automotive history!

 

This is how I found her sitting, on cracked 215/75/14's. She is a dirty girl, but with a near pristine interior.



On the drive home. Yes, she has no plates here. Yes, this is illegal. No, you should not do this unless you live in the rural southern US. (I'm still confused how this is the 'South' since we are one state away from Canada, but you don't argue with married cousins.)



The interior is fantastic for a 47yo car, just dirty. There will need to be some upgrades to the gauges, since I need to know more about the engine's condition. The the fuel sender is out, so petrol will need to be filled often and guessed-i-mated based on milage for a while. Luckily, my first car was '72 Super Beetle and never had a working fuel gauge. You get good at this very quickly. We will be getting a 4 barrel carburetor to replace the one she has, but we are going to stick with the Quadrajet and a side project will be to source and rebuild one so it's ready when the engine goes back in.



You'd think that on a car this large, the engine would be lonely in the bay, but it fills the whole thing. Interesting note, Pontiac never had a small block/large block split. They used one block for everything from a 350 cid to 455 cid. Makes for a rather robust engine block. A lot of grime and oil. A lot of age related cracking rubber and worn bushings. Not anything we weren't expecting. Well, I was rather shocked when my wife insisted we rebuild the AC unit. I was planning on just removing and saving myself the head ache. Now, I need to learn a whole new skill set. YAY!



Her booty. The one bad rust through is in the trunk pan, which luckily has good after market support for patches. I'll be cutting out the whole thing and welding in a new one.



That classic 'angry chicken' look!

 

Good luck, looks like you've got yourselves a nice project there.

 

glad she was saved and disappointed someone tried to scrap her, and very very glad it wasn't turned into a hotrod!

Was she originally white, but re-sprayed to cover up 46 years worth of aged paint? Get the chrome shining on a nice dark deep (year appropriate) colour and she'll be very nice and worth a fair penny considering her mileage.

Some might be tempted to buy a crate motor like something from the LS family, due to time and costing less but it'll take a lot away from the the car with such low mileage and originality of the vehicle.

Personally I would stop driving her, until the tank has been flushed and lines checked, plus all lubrication points checked.

 

Looks like she'll be a nice way to keep you busy for a while, I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

Are you planning a GOOesque blog, or are you planning on keeping it all on the forums?

 

She had a really crappy $100 paint job at some point, most likely to cover up the damage to the orignal one. But, yeah, she is still the same color. Our plan right now is to have her resprayed after the engine work. Well, stripped and body work done, then sprayed. The vinyl top will be removed, and the top done in metallic black and the bottom in metallic iridescent white. Chrome work will all be redone, in batches as time/funds allow.

As much as I love the LSx line, we both want this motor to stay. It will be totally stripped, tanked, and rebuilt. The only changes will be hydraulic roller lifters with a new mild cam, a new intake manifold to support the carb change, upgraded water and oil pumps, and having hardened valve seats put into the heads to match modern fuels. After that, just new rings, seals, gaskets.

I would worry about that if she had been sitting for a long time. But, she actually has been driven regularly. I did check the oil, and she'll get a change here soon enough. First though, we are rebuilding the brakes, changing the brake fluid. Then new shocks and bushings. Then the steering needs to be sorted. Then new wheels and tires.

All said and done, we are shooting for 400hp and 500ftlbs of torque. All at under 5,500 rpm.

I'll be keeping it here for now, perhaps cross posting it to a model year specific forum.

 

While I won't let this descend into an online argument, this is incorrect. Chevrolet split into small and big blocks in 1955; Pontiac continued to use a common sized block for everything from 287 to 455 up until the mid 1970's. Trust me on this. Buick had the nail head up to 1967 when it was replaced by their big block to go with their small block introduced in 1961.

There isn't currently a market for Catalinas. This isn't a GTO, a Firebird, a Tempest, or even a 2+2. I actually paid more then it's worth, and that says a lot given how little I paid it for. The point of this car is to have fun and learn from rebuilding it. And to drive it like we would any other car (there is a reason it's getting 305's in back, lol). It's a driver, not a garage queen. Everything we have planned for it is A) reversible and B) directly related to making it safe and reliable. Except hardening the valve seats, which needs to be done even on a perfect restoration. I certainly don't expect to make any money off it, if we ever do sell it.

Um, the fuel sender isn't a standard swing arm one, it's a rather complex tunnel slider. So, while yes, changing it out is easy; finding one still working isn't so easy after 47 years. They stopped making them shortly after the car was made; the down side to getting a '67 is the it was the first year of a new body style but with parts from the older generation. It sort of is a mid upgrade year. When I sort out a proper work around, I'll put in a new sender. That is the least of my problems though.

As for the Quadrajet, that is a common suggestion from people that know little about carburetor design. "Slap a Holley on it" is a knee jerk solution. Design wise, the Quadrajet is actually a better design. It's less temperature sensitive and, once dialed in, gets better milage all things equal. I'll replace the 2 barrel one with a 4 barrel one, and use a heat shielding gasket to help with vapor lock. But mastering the Quadrajet is part of the project. "Master the Quadrajet and never look at a Holley again. Why do you think we stuck with it for decades?", is what every single GM engineer that I spoke to told me.

There are a few places that support them, except for sheet metal. That is a bit harder due to the lack of demand. GTOs and Firebirds are by far more in demand and so the inital tooling costs are easier to recoup. The same goes for Year One, they are more focused on '69 Camaros and '53 Chevy trucks. For Pontiacs, Performance Years and OPGI seem to be better stocked.

 

I will not argue with you as I am used to dealing with Cameros, chevelles, and chevy trucks. So I will not doubt you on the block I know Pontiac did have a few different blocks than the standard GM. Sorry to hear about the fuel sender I hate it when there are mid year / body changes that completely change things.

Are 305's going to fit under the rear? I had 295 50 15 on my camero with 8.5 in Craiger SSTs and had to cut the rear wheel wells to get them under it. As for the carbs I never had much luck with the Qudrajets, I just found that the holley I had was much easier to work on and adjust, but again I had large jets for primarys and very large jets for secondaries.

One thing I never understood is why any company would put a 2 bbl carb on a v8 seems to me that it defeats the purpose.

Good luck on your project and I have subbed and look forward to seeing you guys make progress. I have a bit of experience working on cars if you run in to a problem I was a mechanic before I injured my back.

P.S. I do not know everything about cars and I was not trying to start an argument. I wasn't thinking about Pontiac having different engines than Chevrolet for a long time. I defer to your knowledge on that.

 

Nice look I have a crush on the Newport 1971 (Another big car ) since I saw it in 'Joy Ride' XD

 

Good luck!

I hope you manage to keep the enthusiasm up to give her the make-over she deserves - you've certainly signed up for a long project - but a deserving one.

I look forward to seeing the finished pictures - the most important thing is to enjoy the process from start to finish, otherwise you'll never finish.

Sweet car.

 

I think it was the very first moves towards emissions and milage control. The motor also has a weird intake manifold design that lets the car warm up faster, lowering the time it spent with the choke open. Less time with motor idling at high RPM used less fuel and ejected less unburnt mix.

I think we built in some insulation against this by breaking the job into smaller sections, and making sure we drive the car in between each project. I think people bog down by completely stripping the project and not seeing a drivable car for 2-3 years.

 

Well, my collective knowledge of cars might just fill a Post-it Note. I've long wanted to do something similar, except my wish centers around restoring a classic Mini. I think it would be fun to learn about the mechanics as I go.

Since I don't know much about cars, my only recommendation to you as you take on this awesome challenge is to document everything. We are Bit-tech, we expect quality pictures for cool projects like this.

Looking forward to following your progress.

 

I'm guessing you are right about that but a 2bbl Carb just cripples a decently built motor and hurts my feelings that it cant live up to the expectations. Nothing makes up for raw Horse Power! And I love to go fast and get there in a hurry!

 

I'm not sure she will ever be quick, not like the ATS-4 we have now or the CTS-V coupe we just returned. We are shooting for smooth and balanced rather then fast. 400hp @ 5000rpm will be more then sufficient.

 

If you match that 400 HP motor a built TH350 tranny and a 3-73 rear it can be really fast! Thats the combo I had in my Camero and it would pass anything but a gas station.

 

Alright, update time.

First, every time I 'had' to move her I needed to jump start the car. Given the awesome weather here, and my burning desire to actually drive her around town, I took her over to Advanced Autoparts. They ran a quick diagnostic on the alternator and battery. Alternator good, battery bad. So I sprang for a new one with 800 cold crank amps vs. the 600 she came to me with. Flawless since the, she fires right up.

So I have spent the last two days running every errand I can think of, just to get out and on the road.

We went to the vet:


And to the hardware store:


All sorts of places. Even a beer run. One thing that drove me crazy was the the accelerator pedal was sticky. It went from idle to 40% power right away, needing a lot of pressure to get it to move. the result was a few stalls and a frightened kids from the noise. So today, I removed the air cleaner and liberally doused all the moving parts of the linkage with lube. Smooth as butter, although I noticed a lot of the washers and tiny bushings were cracking. *sigh* more to rebuild. Now the throttle has a steady linear pull to it, no more having to goose it just to maneuver in a parking lot.

Next, I took a long look a the steering. It has a lot of slop in it. The power steering is working, but there is a definite 'float' to the car and it take 3-4 inches of turn to correct it and start to feel her move. It also it makes it hard to correct the strong pull to the left under moderate braking. I jacked her up and (safely) slid under her. WOW. Wrong move. I mentally spent $2000 in bushings and bits just looking. There isn't a single rubber piece that looks even remotely in good condition. I think my front brake job just turned into a complete front end rebuild. Pics to come on all that.

 

This thread's giving me a mechanical stiffy.

 

Is that possible with an 'innie'?

 

Nice car OP!

LMAO!