I just had someone ask me to make a mod design for them and now that they want to go ahead, i now dont know how I should be charging for the mod, the cost of materials will be around the 300 AUD mark including everything from glue to acrylic to nuts and bolts. It will take around 3 to 4 months to make and requires precesion to the point that even a mm off would result in a disaterous leak. I do not wish to do an hourly rate as I love modding and simply spend all my time on it (noone would be able to afford me at an hourly rate ). Fixed rate is one way, charging a percentage of the building materials cost is another (thats how architects work). Feel free to give suggestions, below is the mod to be built, expect a project log when the materials arrive.
This is a tough question, and really depends on what your relationship is with that person, and what your plans are in terms of making it a business/living your life. I had a similar question, when I first started doing computer repair for private customers. Many of them were friends of friends, so I offered cheap prices. Also, I was using it as a learning experience, and knowing that I wouldn't be the best tech they could get. I would offer a set price for certain services (such as virus removal), knowing that if I charged a strict hourly rate, the price could get very high. That said, I've never modded something for someone else (barely for myself, at this point ) I believe that your customer should pay the full materials cost, plus shipping if needed. Your time and craftsmanship is where the important bits are, which separate you from others. IF you're planning on spending 3-4months of your life on this, that could be very expensive. If you want this as a beginning project for your portfolio, so that you can show future potential customers what you can do, you might want to offer a reduced rate. Plus you don't want to screw your friends. I'd say write out a cost sheet for materials, and an estimate of how many hours you'll expect to spend on it. Figure out what you're gonna do if you break something, and need more materials (will they pay for it, will you, will you split it?) I wouldn't mark up the cost of the materials or mod components, but that's up to you. Very important... Put a price on your time (for you... this is time away from your mod, your footballing, your gaming, your life, etc.) Then figure out if you want to charge the full amount of that time to your first customer. Figure out some milestones so that you can say on this date, I should have this completed... and will have this done by this date, etc. And get it in writing, so there's no confusion or hard feelings later. edit- also, think about what it might cost to outsource some of this.... cnc cutting, airbrushing, adonizing... etc. Would it be cheaper and easier to have parts done in this manner? Best I can offer...
Well the same with selling anything really. Who's the customer? Friend? Family? Acquaintance? Girlfriend who's dad has an expensive car that you'd like to borrow one day?
looks like a very nice idea! I think i'd charge what the person can realistically be asked for it. You'll spend lots of hours on it, and when it's done it'll be something really unique. There's no price for that sort of thing, and a price based on a buisiness model calculated in hours and raw materials will end up way too high.
Basically the guy contacted me on youtube after seeing some of my vids and wanted me to mod for him. He lives in the US and im in Aus so shipping is at quite a cost. In any case, price isnt what i do modding for so I have asked him to name a price he thinks is fair.
The most important part of all this and something you need to work out immediately is some sort of contract and agreement including a deposit on work and materials. When I did the Nakamura case, it was supposed to be for a paying customer and being my naive self, i just started on it before getting any sort of payment or anything. Its a long story but after more than a year of saying he'd pay, then saying he wouldn't, and many many "its in the mail"s, i eventually told him to f*** off. Not saying everyone is like this, but don't put too much money into this until you have some from him.
Well at current Im asking for the budget for the build to be paid in full and my initial fee to be paid at the start, middle and end of the build. This is what the final design is, the res will hold 6.7litres of water and the case on its own will weigh about 20-25kgs.
My history/education: I'm a factory trained and certified master Harley-Davidson (motorcycyle) technician. I also have three 'factory pro' certifications from Suzuki. I do this as a profession and sometimes I'm asked to do side work - mainly so they don't have to deal with my boss (read: he's a douchebag on a good day). My thoughts: You have to look at what this case will cost you in a dollar amount, out of pocket (not including labor). Remember, buying bulk or setting up a business account may get you less than retail prices. However, you're doing this for profit so your customer *should* still pay retail price (of course you and I and the rest of us do stuff for free for people that may in some way 'pay it forward', but remember your time is worth some dollar amount - it's up to you to decide). In an attempt to determine a feasible dollar amount for your labor, I'd look at a few different things. First, your skill level. There's nothing wrong with confidence here, and it's been my experience that premium service can very well fetch a premium price. If you're as good as you think you are, someone will pay. Keep in mind your reputation is all you have at this point. So, you may have to start small and work your way up to the 'big bucks'. Once you decide on a dollar amount, compare it to the competition, then how likely is your potential customer to go to your competition? You also must realize there is a learning curve that must be achieved in every work/profession, and your customer should not be responsible for the time it takes you to master this new skill. Say, for instance, if I can do a major service related task that should take me ~6 hours, but it takes me 8, it's not the customer's responsibility to compensate me for the skills I'm marketing to have mastered. On the same note, if I've done the job enough times to complete it accurately and proficiently in 4 hours, that customer doesn't pay any less becuase I'm that damn good. Comprende? Good luck, and this is only my advice - take it however you will.
You do like your open plan computers don't you... I can't help with your initial question about charging, but I want to ask a few questions about the mod plan. Where is your pump? I assume it will go on the back, so this is no biggy. Secondly, how are you going to route your cabling and tubing? By the looks of it you are going to need to go straight THROUGH your big res.... Laz
Since it's a stranger, i'd suggest charging as much as you can get away with. It's good that you asked him to name a fair price - i'm assuming he has seen the list of parts & prices with an estimation of how long it should take, so he knows what it's costing you to build and roughly how long. Now if it takes you longer than expected, and/or you break parts in construction, then those things are not his problem. It's the same if you buy a house or order a meal, it's not your problem how many things got damaged and re-done, you're just paying for the final product as advertised. +1 on writing up a contract once you two agree on the plans. The contract protects the both of you. The problem is that if the contract is not being signed by someone infront of you that has shown you plenty of id, then he can write down mickey mouse as his name and stooge you out of everything, and then again so could you to him! I don't know how you can definitely have a legitimate contract made over the internet with someone you don't know, without paying for well known businesses at each end to get involved I don't know about this either I've always wondered but was too scared too ask about why the rebels on the site carry on like this. If you're not scared, then make a thread over in general asking about it.
lol and lol, mv... don't set up poor hedoe! hedoe, Nice plan djayness. Good points from the others as well. This is definitely more business minded (I was thinking it was for a friend/acquaintance) and you should protect yourself as well as gain a little extra modding cash, and develop your skills. I don't know what mods go for. You might want to pm someone who you know sells mods (bill owens/mnpctech) and get an idea of rough costs he charges or thinks the market will bear. Some people will pay a lot of money for the prestige of a unique item, but you knew that, didn't you. The stranger in another country does make it a bit harder. You should definitely protect yourself, and get enough cash up front for each of the stages/milestones. Cash flow stops, work stops. No final payment, no shipment. figure on expensive shipping as well, since you want to protect it well enough so it arrives undamaged.
LOL yeah he asked for it to be open, the pump if you can see it, is right under the res just near the cd drive, cables can be routed behind the mobo tray without going around the massive res. Also I will have the pieces laser cut so there will not be any accuracy issues (as any issues would equate to a leak). About pricing, I have asked him to name what he feels is fair, he will provide a quote and that will be added to the contract. The cash he provides for the start of the project and materials will be legal consideration for the contract and as far as I know contracts such as these are internationally and locally enforcable. He seems like a decent guy so lets hope nothing goes wrong eh Also if theres a guide on how to make the pci expansion slots from the motherboard, that would be awesome. Dimensions would be equally as good, something i can print and cut from.
Wow, this could turn out really really good! A few general tips: a customer like this will want top-end hardware. And since you are going to take about a year to build it, you'll need to stay away from current hardware. Get the hardware when you are ready for shipping, no earlier! those components sticking out of the back look like they will need support, whic will ruin most of the "playfullness" and lines of the case in general. Why not concider moving them to the bottom? Think about your cable routing. The design looks awesome, but you will be swamped in cables and tubes if you don't design some sort of system in here before you actually start building. Also concider where your customer wahts all his cables: on the back, on the side, maybe even the top or an external box, whatever. At a bare minimum, you will need to extend DVI, USB, audio, eSata, Firewire and ethernet to a place where you can actuallu plug something in. get somebody, preferrably a notary (but they are maybe too expensive), in the USA to write or validate the contract for you. Get a lawyer (or lawstudent) to review it in AUS, to make sure you are perfectly safe. good luck and have fun!
http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/business-forms-contracts/business-forms-contracts-overview/business-forms-contracts-overview-simple.html And apparently also: http://smallbusiness.findlaw.com/bu.../business-forms-contracts-a-to-z/be8_9_1.html
Thanks for the tips guys, he already has the hardware to put in, all he wants is the case. Also I will have a law friend review the contract. Cheers
I say, don't put ANY of your money on the start. Before starting tell your customer you will calculate the price after some calculations. NEVER say the price before those calculations. Calculation 1: It is best pratice to put a price on your design first. It's not easy to calculate how much a design will cost, so you will estimate how much time you will take to make a design and put a price on each hour. I normally take 3 days working 8 hours per day, wich sums 24 hours for example. This you'll have to calculate before hand and charge the price for your design. You can charge the customer for this part of the work ONLY. If he agrees with the design you can dilute the price in the overall project. It's your call. Calculation 2: Every client will want to know how much they will pay for the finished work before you start. For this phase, you'll need to calculate all the materials (obviosly), but you'll need to calculate a margin of error too. Say 10% of all the material (if you will expend us$ 500,00 charge 550,00) . Not only this, but the eletric power, new tools and the degradation of the old ones too. Calculation 3 It's time to calculate the time you will expend with the making itself. It's hard to estimate, only the experience in past mods will serve you as guidelines. Anyway, estimate the cost per hour, estimate the amount of time you want to expend in it (normally a full time is 8 hours per day) and again a margin of error. And that's it about calculations. But it's not over yet. I don't know how the laws work where you live, but anything like this works without a good contract. A good contract has some points in it: - Conditions of payment: Always charge at least 50% of the overall job before hand. But keep in mind it's good pratice to charge at least all the materials you are going to use. This way you never put YOUR money on the making of it. - Time for completition: Estimate how much time you will expend in the making of it always with a margin of error. But NEVER put on it anything against you if you are not able to finish in time. - Copy rights: Be very specific in the contract saying that "the intellectual property" of the DESIGN is yours. But flexible about the copy rights. Will the client have them or you will? If it's the client, them it will cost him! It wouldn't be nice to have your design owning lots of money across the world because of your hard work and thinking. Well this is it. Bear in mind this is a professional aproach for the question. Too much terms in a contract and an "average joe" will jump out of it. But if you charge too little you'll be known as "the guy that charge little" and nver be able to get away from that tittle. PS: VERY helpfull thread this is
for commission case projects, $40 per hour labor + supplies + shipping I started out at $14 per hour 10 years ago until I gained a good reputation, then steadily raised it to $40 Standard work, like this basic midtower case window which is weekly, goes for $39.99 with return shipping if you're in US (except for some states like hawaii, those go parcel Post. Larger towers run $59.99
