Hi all As Microsoft decided in their wisdom to lay of XP and to charge well over £100 for Windows 7 that does not even run on slightly older computers I would like to get to grips with Linux before I build my new rig (in about 3 month) and would prefer a 64bit version. Now where do I start? The new rig will need to be able to access the internet (Firefox and ThunderNews come to mind if supported) and I am using the Usenet (at the moment I use News Rover but I do not know if there is a version that will support my requirements as NewsRover support has not come back to me yet. As I am a semi Pro Camera Man I need to be able to do movie and sound editing as well as conventions and burning application that I use on a regular base are Nero Ultimate, Adobe Premiere and After Effects, XVidtoDVD, DVD Shrink, MS Office (in particular Word and Excel), Corel Draw and Photo Paint, AVG, AdAware, Spyboot Search and Destroy, CDex, as well as my good old Majong Game (but I am not much of a gamer even I thought about a Flight Simulator). There you got it. Thats what I would like to do and now comes to question where to start? I got a secondary system with an AMD 64 3000 (Venice Core NOT overclocked) that I would use as a 'training rig' till I get to grips with Linux and the applications that I may wish to use so I will know what I am doing when I build my new system (i7 based). I would like to go for 64bit as compiling a movie is just using memory and I want to have as much as possible, unless of course that Linux is working different and I am not in need for that . I know what I do in Windows but NEVER used Linux and this is the first time that I am thinking about it as MS is just a money grabbing machine that thinks my money is growing in the garden. I anyone here able to point me in the right direction and can give me some help with what I need, where to go and where to get the best help for this all. Many thanks SmutjeUK
ORLY? http://www.pcworld.com/article/1669...a_ow=t0:s0:a41:g26:r22:c0.005330:b25911362:z0 And it works perfectly on my temporary Celeron 430 rig too.
+1, Make that it also runs on my Pentium III 800MHz with 512MB of RAM, and runs smoothly (just as smooth as XP) and very usable under my Athlon XP 2000+ 1.8GHz with 512MB of RAM Welcome to bit-tech forum
According to MM (Micro Mart) you will need to hit certain specifications for Windows 7 or it will not run to its full potential. However that is besides the point as I want to get a new rig anyway (as mentioned i7 based) and with MS wanting more and more money (I only spend £100 for my XP Pro just over a year ago, I would like to see if I can get on with Linux in particular with that what I am using (or ab-using) my computer for, that's why I would like to try Linux. Btw. Many thanks for the welcome, im not new to computing but never did anything with Linux and hence need the help of an 'old hand' that can guide me in the right direction.
I switched completely over to Ubuntu less than a year ago from Windows, and I've not had any problems with it, but I use it mainly as an Internet and media PC, still a Linux novice though. So I won't be able to give advice on Linux apps for movie/sound editing. Not sure if Ubuntu is the easiest, but it is probably the most commonly used distro and its community support is very good. Someone somewhere should have an answer to a problem, and they normally reply relatively quickly.
XP is cheap because it's old. As for Win7 pricing, some (most?) of us have just preordered retail Win7 Pro for £90 or Home for £50. Just tought i'd mention it. Now, to not derail this too much: i haven't messed with Linux a lot but i like Fedora so far.
Just remembered there are a couple of sites you can reference to check if there are any Linux apps that may take the place of your Windows ones. Linux can use different GUIs, the 2 most common are Gnome and KDE. http://www.gnomefiles.org/ http://www.kde-apps.org/
Thanks for all your input so far. I know that you can pre-order Win7 but the point is where does it ends? XP was supposed to take us up to 2012 (that was an MS rep that sold me my XP Pro, maybe MS should train their sales reps better and let them know what is about to come out and when the support stops?) then came Vista and that will be gone soon so its Win 7 now, but for how long?. What will be next and how much will that be. A good friend of mine updated 15 company computers from 98SE (that was running stable and with no problems, but the software he needed for his company required XP as a minimum. He spend thousands and is really p*** off. If he can find a way of using Linux so he will and I know plenty of more people in the same situation. I know it cost money to develop a program but I am not made out of money and can buy every 15 month or so a new OS just because someone in MS wants more money. No thanks Microsoft, if I can get from Linux what I need I will be gone faster then MS can sell the next retail version of Vista. Again thanks for all your comments and links. SmutjeUK
No, I think you miss understood. XP SECURITY LEVEL SUPPORT will end in 2012. Bug fix support has already ended for XP. Technically speaking, every 3 years you have a new Windows. The only exception to the rule was XP, as making a new Operating System kernel (core) is EXTREMELY complicated, and VERY hard to do as technology move freaking so fast, so the time Microsoft finishes, a bunch of new technology is already out. Moreover, you have to re-design the security section (and this time make it a priority and not the last thing in the list as it was on the original NT kernel back in 1993 before this internet came). So Longhorn(Vista code name) was SUPPOSED to be out in 2003 (see here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9ifQvQCO7Y) But got delayed again and again and again... also technology prevented it from working. Such has not powerful enough GPU for Aero (notice the great amount of animation.. remember 2003, and must work with older system and slower systems), and also it was in 64-bit form only... back then only the AMD Athlon 64-bit was in a Desktop aimed 64-bit CPU and cost 3000$ Canadian, JUST THE CPU!. You should expect Windows 8 (which Microsoft already started the development and started to plan Windows 9, I was told and read) 3 years from Win7 official release. Of course "Windows 8" and "9" are not official names, I just used these to mention the next and the next next Windows. No on forces to use the latest version of Microsoft Windows. Hardware manufacture and software companies, don't support old OS as it cost A LOT of money and not worth for the potential 1 or 2 clients. Heck even I, for my tool I made (Nv GPU Pro) I drop Windows 95, 98, Me, NT3, NT4.x support, as it's just not worth it. It's complications for nothing. Also, don't think Linux is happy land. The same happens for Linux... you will be at some point in a situation where you need to update to the newer version as new version of software stop supporting your Linux version. Also, you greatly limit yourself in software library and drivers, and doesn't ensure a smooth ride, especially that you have no support. Faster? REALLY? I have my Latitude E6400 laptop from Dell. A preatty powerful system and provides me a nice 9 hours of battery life (with the 9-cell battery). Now, I am at university and where forced to use Linux. So I put like everyone Ubuntu as dual boot. Despite having an Intel wireless card, Intel chipset (Centrino2 platform) Nvidia graphic solution... contains all the latest technology you can get on a laptop, and guess what... My battery life came down to 3 hours, my mouse is choppy, there is a delay when you type on the keyboard. I spend a full month trying to make it to work and have about more than half the class which include several Linux enthusiasts (yes, they know their stuff) and was unable to make is work. Let alone have a smooth moving mouse. The only thing that got fix was the keyboard delay... Oh and I was stuck with 640x480 and 16-bit colors. Nvidia drivers installed but crashed all the time no mater which version we take. Linux is a big headache if you don't have the system supported. I was running Ubuntu under Virtual Box, this is how I did it. Was my problem exclusive to me? No of course not. I like many affected users had to use the university computers. BUT WAIT! Not any computers... it must take the Linux computers because apparently Fedora (this is what the university used) doesn't work on the "new" Quad Core CPUs... no we must use the few P3 and P4 systems to get it to run. Lame! We all ended up using virtual PC type of software (which is what was also installed on the newer university computers), to make it work. And no I am not in some lame university. And of course the IT departement is not giving up as it's part of the Computer Science, Software engineer and computer engineer program and are trying things. During summer time, I pass by and I saw some lab with the new computer with both Windows and Linux (Fedora) dual boot. So I guess, they finally made it work. But again, my point is that it's a BIG PROJECT. No wonder virtually no company actually supports it.
Personally i skipped Vista altogether (since we knew it was a failure the moment it came out), so i'm very satisfied with what i got out of XP and i'm all ready for Windows 7 (the beta and RC of which i have been dual-booting for months without a single problem). Plus, the fact that an OS no longer gets updates does not mean you can't use it. Why is he pissed off? he wanted XP, he got XP. I don't see the problem.
Some slight corrections: - Vista doesn't have a completely new kernel (still NT, v6.0), but the kernel was basically rewritten and lots of complex functions were added (eg. SuperFetch), that's what took time. - From what I've heard, there will be no "Windows" after 7. This time they are really making a completely new kernel from the scratch, called Singularity (you actually can test it already), and the OS project based upon it is called Midori. This is not going to be called "Windows" anymore AFAIK.
Oh I am sorry, you are right because they have to make all software run and prevent developers from re-learning their years of knowledge Windows SDK/API all over again. THINK! Of course, it's not a completely new kernel... but we say "new" in the sense that it's was re-engineered in a way so that security, stability and responsiveness are improved. You are confusing things. This is another platform, do you really think for a moment that Microsoft will ditch every software developers and companies, for some new platform that is most likely won't be any better as the current one? If they do that, they will permanently lose a huge market share which they can never get back. My guess, is that it will end up for mobile phones or some kind of device other than the home/business personal computers platform as we have now. I don't know where you get your facts, but Windows 7 won't be the last "Windows". I recall the same B.S was said with XP, Vista and now you with Win7.
What I've heard is that they'll ditch the NT kernel after Windows 7, but that could be false aswell. Not much info is given by MS on this subject. In any case, they won't be ditching the Win32 API completely. If they ever make a new OS, they'll put a Win32 compatibility layer in it (like Wine) or if virtualization technology is advanced enough, maybe something in style with XP Mode in 7. But then again, I haven't read or heard ANY info about the next Windows version. I definitely should have if there is one to come. Vista (Longhorn) and Seven (Blackcomb, Vienna) were already being planned when XP was released, now what? Not a single word of the next Windows even though 7 is already (nearly) finished. But the truth is that NT has lived long enough and the problems have become obvious. If MS doesn't do big changes, they'll lose a lot of their market share in the next 10 years. They did a big change when they ditched the DOS architechture and brought NT to the homes with XP. The reason was simple -- the problems with Windows 9x were obvious. It definitely is possible that they are going to name Midori "Windows". They did that with NT (it is "Windows" as well as Windows 95, even though they have nothing in common under the hood (except the API)). This has gone a bit offtopic! Sorry for hijacking the thread.
You touch upon the problem yourself when you say "no wonder no company supports it". The lack of hardware manufacturers willing to open up some of their oh-so-important-secrets is the main reason the Linux kernel still has problems with some/a lot of hardware. NVidia is among the worst, they did release proprietary drivers for the Linux kernel but as you experienced... they're pretty ****. Anyway, as for the topic: I'd go for Windows; just because you're used to it. (I have very little hope for mankind .) From what I've read in the replies, it seems like it should do the job. If you're willing to give GNU/Linux a try, you could start with Ubuntu Studio. The Ubuntu forums are full of users, and even though I'm not a fan of it myself, it doesn't seem too bad to get your feet wet in the Path To Salvation And Growing A Big Beard (aka freedom - beard is optional). Ubuntu Studio's install offers you the choice of audio/video/graphics/etc applications, which you can install or not install to your choosing. It may be a good choice, especially as you've got a test-PC handy, to at least have a look as to how it can serve you. There's also Musix and Dyne:Bolic, 100% free (i.e. they use the LinuxLibre kernel) distributions also aimed at audio/video/graphics editing, creation, etc. Musix and Dyne:Bolic can also be run from a LiveCD (no installation required), which would save you some time if you want to give them a quick try. If you don't like those, you can try to get one of the GNU/Linux distributions that are fairly well supported by the community, such as Debian or Fedora (from the top of my head I remember them having decent support forums; I don't want to start a distro war here). The default installations of these "regular" distros (rather than Ubuntu Studio/Musix/Dyne, which are specifically aimed at audio/video/graphics work) lack the specialised software, meaning you'd have to install it yourself. A great way of learning, but depending on your personality and interest it may be a nuisance. However, the specialised software does exist: Have a look at http://directory.fsf.org and http://www.linuxappfinder.com . Or prefix any Google search with "linux" and what you want the program to do, and you'll most likely find an answer. I don't know you personally, so I don't know if you're the type to pay for your software when it requires to be paid for; but if you are: 99% of free software (free as in freedom) is available for zero-price; so in essence 99% of it is also free as in beer (and everybody likes free beer. Well, I don't, I'm a spirits man... but I won't say no to free spirits!). If you normally pay for your software, GNU/Linux could offer some massive cost-saving improvements. (Time spent getting used to a new system, however, is difficult to be measured in cost or anything else.)
Thanks for all your input, but bar the last message most of the answers where miles away from the original question. I know there are millions in favour of Windows, I know you got more software support from third party's (not to forget the drivers) but what was making me as well as my business friend angry is that you just update and think on a few years of support and fixes only to be told by MS it will support the system any more, hence the decision to see if Linux may offer a better option. But the discussion has by now moved to a pro windows and so far I did not get much help in finding out what is there for me in Linux (or maybe another OS system?). Many thanks for all your input so far but please concentrate a bit more on Linux as it is my choice to try it. Also, yes I do pay for software that I need, sometimes even ridicules prices for Adobe, Corel, MS Office and After Effects come to mind especially, but I still get the support even after years were MS seems to force me to upgrade if I want security fixes or other support. Yes, I can afford it to buy Win 7 but it seems a bottomless barrel and I am not afraid to try something new. It just surprised me how many people gone of the original question and my thanks to 'Imperium' because he got it right without sticking to the MS point. Thanks again SmutjeUK
tl;dr XP's tech support / bug fix is done, security support is still offered till 2014. Win 7 Basic should work on some really old hardware. If your going for linux 64 bit, get a amd64 iso of your perferred distro and use the same hardware you would with a 64bit Winblows PC. Personally if your a noob to linux, get Ubuntu 32 bit, get familiar with it, then step up to 64bit. PM me if you need any help.
Really, what did you expect? You didn't stick to the point, so why should we have? You bashed microsoft, of course you're not going to get many unbiassed answers. If you'd have just asked for Linux advice without dissing MS we probably would have helped you.
The only thing why I was so negative about MS was to explain my reasons for behind the thought to give Linux a try. Fine, I should have thought that better through and I realise that there are 'hard core supporters' on either side but I honestly would have expected people are more relaxed and not starting a war about my reasons behind trying Linux. However 'hard hitting' the answers where, it still has not discouraged me from willing to try out Linux on my second rig (which is indecently a 64bit system). My stand with MS probably came over stronger than it was mend to be but it makes me cross when you get told one thing and then they pull away the carpet under your feed. Also with Linus it seems that I can actually tweak the OS itself by myself and to my liking (once I get to grips with it and once I have learned more about it!) should I have some issues with the distro that I may use at the end. I am sorry if I have hurt someone's feelings or if I stepped on somebody's toes, this was never my intentions. All I wanted was some advise on how to do the switch over and where to go and wanted to explain the reasons behind my thoughts. I hope I left no hard feelings behind. Thanks you to you all (and maybe I gave someone the vent they needed, LOL) SmutjeUK
We aren't trying to hurt your feelings either, we just correct any errors. Fanboyism is stupid and I don't think any of us is one. Correcting false assumptions is not fanboyism. Actually, you can tweak Windows a lot more than it's usually accepted, but it sure is slightly harder than tweaking Linux.
Agreed. Remember that in my case, I just explained my situation on my laptop. I did not say that Linux isn't great by itself... just that it could be complicated to install on.. let's say unsupported systems. Again, in my case, now I am using Virtual Box and having Ubuntu installed on it, gave me a smooth ride in having it up and running properly, and I was able to fully use it normally during the full semester and ready to use it for semester to come. I am just showing the contrast between supported and unsupported system with this OS.
