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News HP switches to Windows 7 'by popular demand'

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Gareth Halfacree, 21 Jan 2014.

  1. SexyHyde

    SexyHyde Minimodder

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    So there has been no innovation apart from that major bit of innovation, which we can discount because nobody wanted it. And Windows 8 / 8.1 have a lot more to them then the metro interface, but we can dicount all that. Also Windows Phone which is pretty good and innovative in its own right, late to the game maybe, but perfect for the majority of phone users.

    I would disagree here. OS development needs to take an evolution rather than revolution development cycle, this is because companies need LTS because they don't want to be training staff and purchasing new licences/machines, more than they absolutely have to. If you had a company you wouldn't move to Win8 purely for the fact that you would lose so many man hours to people learning the new ways to do everything. Also people will use at home what they've learned/know from work.

    Your obviously doing it wrong!

    Oh and I use Win7, Ubuntu and Android in case you think I'm some sort of fanboi.
     
  2. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Darn tootin we can :D

    Seriously though when people roll out this innovation label what is it they are expecting ?
    Are we talking about technical innovations? as all i ever see is people talking about the Metro GUI and while it could be argued that is innovative in its own right what else does 8.x bring to the table.

    Sure we get a new version of DirectX with next to no advantage over older versions, we get built in support for USB3 but who cares about saving an extra 5min during the install of Windows?
    So if someone doesn't like the Metro GUI what reason would they have to upgrade ?
    Glad i wasn't the only one to think it seemed odd not to notice a difference going from XP on rust to 7 on silicon, like you said obviously something is wrong, or it's the worlds slowest SSD
     
  3. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    If that is the case, how come tablets? Oh, look: a computer that does not have a desktop with windows, does not have a mechanical keyboard and mouse. Innovation, right there.

    In the olden days, when you wanted to tell a story or convey information, you used books. With illustrations if you wanted to be creative. It's a good method, still in use today. And then audio recordings came along, and then film. And eventually, the computer; and lo: stories and information became interactive. And recently, books have evolved into e-reader tablets.

    I would also disagree that "nobody wants Windows 8". On this forum (a humble poll, but nonetheless) 49% of people like it. Many critics haven't even tried it. What many fail to recall is what Windows 1.0 was like --they're too young to remember. They merely adopted computers. I grew up with them.. I did not see the first GUI (Apple Lisa) until I was already a man. Trust me: Windows 1.0 was rough. Windows 95 was rough. Windows 7, good as it is, took more than a decade to refine.
     
  4. Sgoaty

    Sgoaty Minimodder

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    Im just giving windows 8.1 its second chance just now. Ive a feeling I could be back to 7 like you :)
     
  5. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    There's plenty. Let's see... new graphics acceleration features with up to a 500% performance boost... The File History backup feature... ReFS (if you're willing to do a bit of registry hacking, anyway)... Reduced memory footprint... Storage Spaces... And those are just the ones we've covered on the site. There's also the shiny new features for software writers, and a nice big Wikipedia list of other tweaks including Windows' first-ever direct support for Advanced Format storage devices without emulation, Windows To Go, proper UEFI Secure Boot support...

    'Course, there's also the list of features removed in Windows 8, but that wasn't the question.
     
  6. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    OK i guess they would count as technical innovations, yes ?

    The thing is if i was trying to sell someone on the idea of upgrading to 8.x and told them they can render text up to %336 faster, I'm guessing most people would say they never found text-rendering performance to be slow on older version.
    The File History backup feature (afaik) is Microsoft talk for making the previous versions feature in older Windows simpler to use and (iirc) switched on by default so it simple for non computer literate people to use.

    ReFS is good IMHO, but then the caveats make it all but pointless for the vast majority of people. The reduced memory footprint is also nice but in this day and age when RAM is so cheap and typical system come with over 4GB it again leaves a person asking why bother.
    Storage spaces is nice, but it seems like it's aimed more at the enterprise market than consumers.

    The thing is all these innovations seem to either be an improvement on what already existed in previous versions of Windows or things that your average consumer will either not care about or not even notice.
    On the other hand the list of removed features you mention are possibly features that people do notice along with the new flat look and Metro.
     
  7. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Err... Yes?
    innovate: ˈɪnəveɪt/. Verb. Make changes in something established, especially by introducing new methods, ideas, or products. (My emphasis.)

    Now, you know I'm not a Microsoft fanboy - I don't use Windows beyond the Windows 8.1 virtual machine I've got 'ere for when I need screenshots or testing I can't do in Linux - but I'd certainly say that Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 both contain innovations. Beyond the Start Screen and Modern UI - which are innovative, whether or not you actually like them - would an end-user notice most of the innovations? No. But then, what else is new? Windows 98 was a vast improvement over Windows 95, but looked damn-near identical.
     
  8. GeorgeStorm

    GeorgeStorm Aggressive PC Builder

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    Switched to 8.1 from 7 a couple of months ago (after only switching to 7 a couple of years before that).

    I don't really get the hate, you can use it just like you do 7, but with a nice difference. It's quicker.

    I guess there may be software compatability issues, but I've not really found any that I can think of.

    I was a big fan of XP, only switched eventually due to getting a free key for W7, slowly I began to like the new features (such as the search bar in the start menu being a very handy tool). The jump to W8 isn't big, unless you use the 'apps' I guess, which I don't like, so I don't use them, I just get the normal programs like I would on 7.
     
  9. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    Ahh OK, so it seems my idea of what is innovative is different from the actual meaning :duh:
    Am i the only one that considered to innovate was to come up with some great new way of doing things ?
     
  10. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    That's what it does mean, except without the 'great.' Building an overly-complex mousetrap that draws 100W of power and fills a room is 'innovative' in that it's a new way of doing something, but it's not a good way of doing something. Basically, it's really hard to come up with something entirely new. Apple's MacBook Air? Innovative, in that it was the first ultra-slim laptop - but we already had laptops. The spork? Innovative, in that you don't need a separate spoon and fork - but we already had numerous methods of shovelling food into our gobs. Electric lights? Innovative, in that they're safer and brighter than gas lamps - but we've been seeing in the dark since we learned to light fires.

    Even if you stick to an 'innovation' being purely 'a great new way of doing things,' most things in my post still apply. A new graphics system that accelerates drawing by up to 500 per cent? I'd say that's a great new way of doing graphics, wouldn't you?

    If you have to do something entirely new, then there hasn't been an innovative OS since the Xerox Alto. After all, aren't they all just windows and icons?
     
  11. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    So i guess its a matter of degrees and how each person interprets the changes, after all i don't think the increase in 2D rendering to be an innovation as i would guess most people don't have experience of it being to slow in previous versions of Windows.

    And forget the spork really innovative people use a Spife :D
     
  12. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    You're getting further way from it: people's perception of a thing has absolutely no impact on whether something is innovative or not. Modern car engines have numerous innovations designed to improve reliability, efficiency and other factors - but there's no way you could tell that by looking at the outside of the car. An innovation is a new, and hopefully better, way of doing something. It does not require that the 'something' in question is understood by normals - otherwise there'd be no such thing as innovations in deep-sea cable transmission performance, or nuclear power station safety, or methods for doing something incredibly complex in theoretical physics that I can't be bothered to think of an example for now. Something to do with neutrinos, let's say. They're always fun.
     
  13. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    But my point is who is saying what is better or an improvement, i don't care that my car is more reliability or efficient but i would care if we finally got flying cars.

    Yes something may be very innovative but if that new and better way of doing things has little effect on people it means very little to them. Going back to my original point, of when people roll out this innovation label what are the expecting and SexyHyde's comment of...
    While 8.x may have innovations, to the vast majority of people they go unnoticed as they have little use for them. In other words as SexyHyde said "we can discount because nobody wanted it"
     
  14. impar

    impar Minimodder

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    Greetings!
    As I posted somewhere else in this forum, people only perceive as improvements the Task and File Manager. All other "under the hood" improvements is lost to them.
     
  15. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Empirical testing says something is better or an improvement. Old way of doing SVG rendering = five times slower than the new way. That means the new way is better. QED.
    You'll have to ask SexyHyde directly for clarification, but I think you may have missed a big helping of sarcasm in his post...
     
    Last edited: 22 Jan 2014
  16. rollo

    rollo Modder

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    As ive said elsewhere, On newer Gpus or those using SLI and Cfx there is at least a 10% free performance boost from just using windows 8.1

    On my own system I gained about 15% performance across most of the games I play on it.

    That alone is reason to upgrade, You can disable the metro if you like and be done with it.

    Quick edit and if your using AMD cpus or APUs you must buy windows 8.
     
  17. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

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    You seem to be getting hung up on the black and white definition or meaning of the words.

    Despite repeated attempt to explain that if an innovation, change or improvement doesn't affect the user it may as well not exist, it seem i have failed to clarifying what i originally said about "Seriously though when people roll out this innovation label what is it they are expecting ?"

    From what i can tell you see the innovation label as the slightest positive change to something no matter how small or unnoticeable it is.
    Sarcastic or not doesn't really matter, as i have repeatedly tried to explain if an innovation isn't relevant to people it is exactly as SexyHyde sarcastically or not said "discounted because nobody wanted it"
     
  18. itrush07

    itrush07 Minimodder

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    No more winxp and soon win7..
     
  19. SexyHyde

    SexyHyde Minimodder

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    indeed /sarcasm was missing from end of code.


    I'm going to have to say your wrong about innovation, but its not really your fault.

    A long time ago people and companies innovated and no one really noticed any of it. Sometimes things got better, sometimes they "changed" but no one really knew what had exactly changed and other times they just cost more or less. Then Apple came along and changed innovation (I think Apple may have created innovation or at least patented it first). To innovate became cool/different/better/exclusive. It was always bigger and better and you shouted it loud and everyone wanted it. People got envious. Shares in the stock market rocketed. THIS IS INNOVATION (to be read in a 300 / this is sparta voice). Only it wasn't. It was marketing and advertising.
     
  20. David

    David μoʍ ɼouმ qᴉq λon ƨbԍuq ϝʁλᴉuმ ϝo ʁԍɑq ϝμᴉƨ

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    Isn't that akin to saying the Spork was not innovative because I always use chopsticks?
     

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