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Rant I am getting old or are motorbikes getting louder?

Discussion in 'General' started by Boscoe, 23 Sep 2020.

  1. Boscoe

    Boscoe Electronics extraordinaire.

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    It seems a bit strange to me how motorbikes are so loud when I’m sure there’s strict regulation for cars. I love in central London and while walking along the path today a motorcyclist went past on the other side of the road. They must have only been doing ~30MPH but it was so loud I could feel the sound in my chest and I got some vague pain in my ears. Anyone else feel like this? I’m only 26 and pretty chill however this is just unpleasant!
     
  2. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    I blame KTM.

    Their bikes always seem to scream, fart, and howl more than the others.. Harley's are also noisy, but given the somewhat common opinion that they're just a way to turn money into noise, I don't know that they've changed..
     
  3. CrapBag

    CrapBag Multimodder

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    I believe some people change exhaust for the Mot and then put their noise box back on afterwards.
     
  4. Byron C

    Byron C Multimodder

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    Wasn't RoyalJordanian on his Nuda by any chance, was it? :grin:

    There's actually a fairly good argument in favour of having noisy exhausts on bikes. It means that even when people can't see you (or just aren't looking) then you can be damn sure they've heard you. If you're filtering through traffic (absolutely essential in London) with an exhaust blaring then people will generally look round to try and see where that godawful noise is coming from. Even if you piss people off it still makes them look for you. My bike is relatively quiet as I haven't replaced the factory-fitted exhaust, so I have to be very careful indeed when filtering...

    It's also pretty hard to judge changes in speed without the feedback of your engine or exhaust. Generally your helmet's chin bar is in the way of the dashboard, so you can't just quickly glance down at the speedo - you often have to move your head, meaning you take your eyes of the road longer. The pitch of the engine noise changing is a useful guide as to whether your speed is increasing or decreasing and you can monitor that without taking your eyes off the road. That's something else which is really difficult on my quiet bike!

    There's always the minority who are the exception of course, but most people aren't intentionally trying to be dicks about it :).
     
  5. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Multimodder

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    You're getting old dude!

    Motrcyclists have been fitting arseblaster exhausts since motorbikes were a thing. It's very common for after market exhaust to have removable baffles that take five minutes to fit/remove. Officially the loud settings are for track use only, but most track days will insist your bike meets road legal noise levels and they'll check too. It's annoying but it's really about the individual rider and not bikes in general.
     
  6. adidan

    adidan Guesswork is still work

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    It may be that there's just a little less other noise about so you hear it more.
     
  7. RedFlames

    RedFlames ...is not a Belgian football team

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    ...both?
     
  8. CrapBag

    CrapBag Multimodder

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    Pardon, speak up young man.
     
  9. David Clark

    David Clark What's a Dremel?

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    I agree to you as some motorcycle brands started manufacturing such bikes that create huge noise. KTM is one of such brands.
     
  10. wyx087

    wyx087 Homeworld 3 is happening!!

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    Totally agree with you, motorbikes are unnecessarily too loud. The noise is also reflected back in central London between buildings. You can hear them from streets away.

    As EV fan, I feel having loud vehicle (motorbikes, cars, rubbish trucks, etc) are totally unnecessary. Noise is a form of pollution and waste by-product of the ICE. What makes pedestrianised zone (eg. Leicester Square) so much better than traffic filled streets (eg. Regent's Street)? Large part of it is the lack of noise from engines under stress (accelerating). At those speeds, a vehicle should be completely silent. Similarly, if your street get rubbish truck at 6am, you'd greatly appreciate if the trucks doesn't create a huge racket to generate electricity to power the hydraulics.

    Safety is a 2 way street. Motorbikes need to be seen. At the same time, minimal speed difference is key to being safe. I've seen some motorbikes make the engine scream to get pass a queue of traffic at ridiculous speed.
    Considering moped can only do 100 miles between visiting petrol station. While electric mopeds can do around half of that but can leisurely charge at home and start the day with full range. Why are people still buying those tiny engine, hugely noisy mopeds?
    Large motorbikes for real man doing long distances out of town is different. That is like horse riding (or soon will be like). ;)
     
  11. Byron C

    Byron C Multimodder

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    That's.... a very London-centric view. That might work for London - except electric mopeds - but it will not work everywhere. I do so love it when people who work or live in London think that their experience applies everywhere.

    Of course people need to see you... But bikes are easily blocked by door pillars, A-posts, blind spots, etc. The best driver in the world can easily miss a biker because sometimes we're just. And this is to say nothing of inattentive drivers who just aren't looking. In an accident the biker is always going to come off worse; what might be a little rear-end bump when one car hits another at the traffic lights could be a very serious accident if a car hits a bike from behind. As a biker it's on you to make sure you're doing everything you can to mitigate the fact that people can't see you, and I'm sorry but having a decently loud exhaust is one of those ways. I'd be willing to bet money that this is confirmation bias: sure you might see people filtering at high speeds, but I can almost guarantee you that those people are in the minority. They're the ones that you remember because they're the ones that stand out (and therefore reinforce your bias). It's the same thing with cyclists: you remember the ones that you see acting like a dick or jumping the lights and it reinforces the idea that cyclists are terrible on the road. You never remember the majority who don't stand out because they're doing what they should be.

    Bikers aren't dicks because some people have loud exhausts or ride dangerously. Cyclists aren't dicks because some cyclists jump red lights or cycle in pedestrian-only areas. Car drivers aren't dicks because some car drivers aren't paying attention or looking properly.
     
  12. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    I.. Don't trust people and silent (Well.. Without engine noise) vehicles. Some people are startled when a tank thunders past. They're definitely not going to notice the E-vehicle that sends them cartwheeling down the road.

    I dunno.. I think all road users are dicks. Me included. Because piloting a pile of metal tends to make people behave differently. Whether that metal is wrapped around 'em, or barely containing explosions between their thighs.

    The only time I like bikers is when they're in front of me, and as a sub-consideration of that, if they thank me for moving over so the can more safely overtake.

    A biker behind me puts me on edge, especially if it's not one of those annoying wasp in a bean-can moped things, because I know they could overtake, and more importantly, will disappear from my sight at some point. Owing to being a biker and all that. Well, I suppose Goldwings behind me are okay, those aren't much smaller than a Smart.
     
  13. wyx087

    wyx087 Homeworld 3 is happening!!

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    I think my comment applies to all built-up areas. I've been living in a village in North Somerset over last few months, I think it also applies to the high street here.

    Also, just to let you know. In 2019, I've travelling into London less than 10 times despite living on the edge. Similar to confirmation bias on the road, just because my profile says I live in N London doesn't mean I view the world from inside the city.

    End of the day, no one likes noise, so why generate it at excessive level?

    It's not because confirmation bias. It's just the way the road system are built. In name of safety and flow rate, vehicles removes the human element from road-use. Agree with liratheal, I view ALL other road user as dicks and expect ALL other road users to do silly things.

    When I drive, I stick to the highway code, signal as much as possible. But if moped/motorbike/bicycle isn't in front of me, I don't include them in my driving decisions because I signal and operate the vehicle according to the highway code. Normally, lane splitting motorbikes will not go past a car indicating they want to change lanes, so in this instance, the motorbike doesn't need the noise.

    I'd be interested to hear instances, when riding safely according to the highway code, that the noise is absolutely critical for safety.

    If they are going to hit, the reason isn't bike vs car size difference, it's more due to distraction. If the car is moving at more than 20mph, due to road noise, a idling bike engine cannot be heard.
     
  14. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    Thing is, though, not everyone does that.

    Not every biker rides like that.

    Not every biker considers the risk-reward the same, either.

    Just because a biker's behind you, and you signal, doesn't mean they haven't already committed to a risky maneuver.

    I've seen as many bikers ride like they're made of fleshy bits wrapped in protective gear as I've seen ride like they're made from the essence of invulnerability. Thing is, whichever they are, they're vulnerable road users. Those of us who are much, much, less vulnerable are often much less aware of how much risk bikers are taking just by being on the road, and while loud bikes annoy me as much as they do Victor Meldrew, I can see the argument for having as many things as possible on your side to make people aware of your presence.
     
  15. wyx087

    wyx087 Homeworld 3 is happening!!

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    I agree with vast majority of what you've said.

    Indeed bikers are more at risk than car users. But at the same time, surely the risk factor should deter bikers from making such risky maneuvers?

    Whilst I totally understand the argument for generating noise to make people aware of presence. I don't feel it is necessary vast majority of the time when driving risk-averse and according to the highway code. In the 1% of the time it's necessary, the horn (or a modern friendly version) could have done the job.

    Coming back to your earlier comment on silent vehicles. I've been considering installing a door bell under the bonnet of my EV. The horn is sometimes considered too aggressive but I do get nerves when pedestrians clearly hadn't noticed me on a quiet road. Luckily those instances only happen when driving very very slow so I can stop on a dime.

    We do need a non-aggressive, not annoying, easily dissipated at distance sort of sound for gentle reminders.
    Engine noises doesn't fit that it's aggressive, annoying and sometimes travel a long distance.
     
  16. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    Aye, it probably should - I don't understand it myself, not being a biker (Although both my parents are/were), but I'm given to understand there's something rather infatuating when it comes to a bike and the open road, perhaps that alters some of their risk-reward calculations in ways that us metal box drivers can't comprehend.

    I'm a little bit of a petrolhead, so I tend to like engine noise, so I'm not sure we're ever going to see eye to eye on that one :D

    I could see the argument for making cities quieter, but from what I remember the most annoying city noise was public transport - Massive vehicles with massive diesel engines.
     
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  17. mrlongbeard

    mrlongbeard Multimodder

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    Don't get too hung up on the safety part of noise.
    The noise is part of 'it', if you're not a motorcyclist you won't get 'it', a car may move the body but a motorbike moves the soul.

    Riding a powered 2 wheeler is like nothing you've ever done, the noise, the smell, the freedom, the feeling, the freedom, it's addictive, it becomes your reason for living.

    Bikes as supplied are wheezy sewing machines and need a bit of freeing up, but consideration should be given by all sides.
     
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  18. Pete J

    Pete J Employed scum

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    It's a bucket list item of mine to own and drive a big chopper type bike one day, perhaps a Triumph Rocket 3. Just need to do my CBT first. Last year I had my first ever motorbike ride as a passenger by a friend on some 4 cylinder mental racing thing. Utterly incredible experience, terrifying and amazing.

    I had another friend who also had some limited edition racing bike which had some carbon fibre racing 'xausts fitted. He had to wheel it to the end of the street before setting off in the mornings, to avoid annoying the neighbours. Eventually he got fed up with it and put the normal ones back on.

    At a guess, I'd say bikes tend to be noisier as they can't fit a large silencer/muffler like cars can. Still, makes me grin when I hear a motorbike go by, whether it's a chopper with its window shattering 1rpm engine or the latest Japanese death rocket.
     
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  19. Byron C

    Byron C Multimodder

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    Then why specifically call out Leicester Square?

    And no, it really doesn't apply to all built up areas. Making everything on the road electric is maybe suitable for 5 or 6 of this country's biggest cities: London, Manchester, Birmingham, Edinburgh, maybe one or two others. Outside of such large urban areas people often have to commute a long way, and they often work in places where building out mass-scale EV charging infrastructure is going to be prohibitively expensive.

    And you know what? Where it's feasible to convert public service vehicles - buses, taxis, bin lorries, etc - to electric vehicles, many local authorities are already doing so. The thing that stops the rollout is cost - most local authorities can barely afford to keep paying their staff and some are even declaring bankruptcy.

    I am absolutely not against electric vehicles, not in any way at all. We need everyone driving electric because we quite literally cannot keep burning fossil fuels. There will be a time that we cannot enjoy our classic cars or our great big thumping motorbikes because we quite literally cannot put fuel in them. To say nothing of the ecological damage caused by burning hydrocabons... But right now I don't think EVs are ready for mass market adoption. The batteries we have now are incredible pieces of technology but the batteries and the charging systems are by far the weakest link in the chain. Lithium ion batteries themselves are also incredibly problematic when it comes to environmental damage from lithium mining and atrociously dangerous working conditions.

    Sorry, I stopped taking you seriously here. You cannot just worry about the traffic in front of you, you have to be aware of all your surroundings, including the traffic following you. That attitude - that EXACT attitude - is precisely why bikers are taught to be so defensive.

    :lol:

    You're... missing the point. I don't give a flying **** why someone hits me, the issue here is that I COULD BE KILLED. This is why we filter, use bus lanes, and use loud exhaust/engine noise to be noticed: it's specifically to get out of situations where someone else's mistake means my death.

    Trust me, we're probably paying more attention to what you're doing than you are and we're probably more aware of your blind spots than you are. When I overtake generally I know damn well I'm moving into your blind spot and generally I know damn well that you probably won't notice me until you see me through your windscreen. I'm going to spend as little time as possible in your blind spot and often that means accelerating hard... which makes it sounds like I'm doing an aggressive and dangerous overtake because I'm accelerating...

    You could be literally the best driver in the world but I am still going to treat you as if you're going to kill me.

    Of course, "not all bikers" - as already mentioned, there are lots of dicks out there. And I'm not perfect either, I do pretty dumb stuff. I've nearly lost control and crashed or come off several times because I misjudged the severity of a bend. Just the other week I nearly ended up going through a bush and into a reen because I went too fast into a blind bend - I was so lucky the road was clear at the time, I could have easily been in an accident or caused one.

    I toyed with the idea of getting a motorbike ever since one of my work colleagues started riding about a decade ago. What made me do it in the end was when my father was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I needed to be able to travel the ~25 miles to my parents house at a moment's notice. Public transport would take hours - it's literally a 2hr bus trip each way and they don't live anywhere near a train station. Couldn't drive the car because no license. Couldn't rely on the other half to be able to duck out of work at a moment's notice to give me a lift. It was a pretty simple choice: do an intensive driving course - assuming I could actually book one at short notice - and get a second car; or, do my CBT and get a learner bike. In less than one week I had extended my loan, done the CBT, had all the gear delivered, and bought the bike. For a total outlay of about £3000.

    (Side note: I paid £1900 for my learner, a Honda CBF125. A year later the same dealer gave me a trade-in value of £1500. Damn those things hold their value!)

    At first it was just a tool to get me back and fore to see my dad. But I fell in love with it pretty soon. I had to take quieter back roads because learners aren't allowed on motorways, and I soon started really looking forward to the drive. Not because I was going to see my dying father, but because it was the most perfect escape from my daily life. At the time there was nothing else except the ride. It was calm, it was peaceful, and it was damn pretty. Riding a motorbike quite literally got me through one of the toughest parts of my life so far.

    The thing that really sealed the deal was when I did a trip round the Welsh coast nearly three years ago. Pro tip, btw: don't do that in February, that is not the time of year for it! The first day was pretty miserable because it was so wet. But the second day was dry and I set off from Aberystwyth to go up through Snowdonia to the coast and over to Wrexham. There were parts of that ride where I quite literally wept because it was so incredibly beautiful. I got lost and doubled back on myself several times but I barely even noticed it at the time because it was such an incredible experience. Few things in my life have come close to that experience.
     
    Last edited: 25 Sep 2020
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  20. liratheal

    liratheal Sharing is Caring

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    Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean to imply that all bikers take risk, it's that every move on a bike is a risk on a public road as far as I can tell.

    Just last night I had a CBR behind me start cutting through two lanes of (moving, 70-100kmh) traffic only to take the first exit after the road went to unrestricted, about three exits after he joined the road. There was another guy doing similar (In the highly protective skinny jeans and slip on shoes), but he upped and ****ed off much further than the CBR and I didn't see him again.
     
  21. wyx087

    wyx087 Homeworld 3 is happening!!

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    Why though?

    On motorway when thinking of changing lanes, worry about cars surrounding and even miles behind speeding pass, yes that makes sense.
    On multilane slow moving traffic (example where bikers are known to filter), a quick glance at door mirror and blindspot doesn't show any biker, then it's fine to indicate and let everyone know my plan to in a few moments.
    On slow moving single lane roads, where bikers overtake by riding on the opposite lane, a quick glance at door mirror whilst slowing down and indicating, then that's fine. Overtaking on the right when someone is turning right is not allowed anyway. (this is the instance I was thinking when I made that comment)

    End of the day, no biker would be stupid enough to ride in a car's blind spot, as you've said:
    Now, if this type of defensive riding can be peacefully and quietly done, why not?

    I've given multiple examples of driving according to highway code, where it is absolutely fine to only worry about surroundings as required. But
    End of the day, topic of this thread is motorbike noise.



    I'll leave out EV stuff to another thread. But to commuting a long way that is prohibitive to have an EV would have to be a really long way. Before WFH, I commute 60 miles per day in a first-gen Nissan Leaf. Today's cars range from 140 miles and upwards, so unless rural folks commute 100+ miles daily, current EV can be suitable without needing to install workplace charger. Of course due to current infrastructure, EV is only for driveway owners, isn't for everyone, yet.
    I thought Leicester Square vs Regent Street is fitting because they are next to eachother and the experience is vastly different.
     

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