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i need your take on this "150€ laptop iniciative"

Discussion in 'Serious' started by DXR_13KE, 3 Jun 2007.

  1. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    I will put a little background information before i write the situation.

    I live in Portugal, the minimum wage is about 400€ a month, the population is about 10 000 000 , there are about 500 000 unemployed, the price for a moderate T2 apartment is about 150 000 €, the equivalent of your VAT is about 21% and 5% or 12% for more important stuff like food (in the islands the VAT is 15% and 4% or 8% but the import/export taxes make stuff here a lot more expensive), the gas station in front of my house has 95 gasoline at 1.319€/L , 98 is 1.454€/L and diesel is about 1.016€/L, a 1Kg pack of rice is 1.39€.

    Retired people, handicapped people and poor people had some social help to get by, the government is cutting all of this help, i know some of my friends that have hearing and learning problems that their transport and food help has been cut and they are poor, and there are very rich people receiving this help because they have "help from the inside" and everyone knows this.
    hospitals, maternities, health centers, schools are being closed, even important ones, wages and careers are frozen.

    the standard wage for a medium class person is about 750€ and they are the ones that support the taxes, rich people and poor people don't pay taxes, some evade and some are inset, the middle class is disappearing and the country has an enormous external dept and a big annual deficit.

    cable internet is about 35.60€ for 8Mb internet with a international limit of 30GB and no national limit.link

    if you require a translation to pounds or another measure ask and i will gladly translate it for you.


    the 10th grade here is the 10th year you are in school, there you choose the area you want to learn, my it be arts, general......etc.... IIRC there are 4 groups and the first group, General, has various technological paths and the main general path you can chose, i chose electricity but you can stay in the general and study biology.


    now for the important part:
    the prime minister, José Sócrates AKA I-BOUGHT-THE-ENGINEERING-TITLE-AND-LIED-ABOUT-IT-TO-THE-LAW-AND-EVERYONE :nono: , wiki, said in parliament that he was going to create an initiative that would sell kids that enter the 10th grade a laptop for a maximum of 150€ and a minimum of 0€ and a discount of 5€ on the internet package you chose.


    there will be 3 levels:
    For this normal kids with no social/economic problems, they get the laptop for 150€ and a discount of 5€ of the internet during 3 years,

    kids with low income families will get the laptop for "no initial payment" and with the price for internet of 15€ during 3 years

    kids with low income and social help will get the laptop for "no initial payment" and internet for 5€ during 3 years.


    there is also the teachers and people involved in the "new opportunities program", this involves people that work but have gone back to school to learn and get better jobs, these people get the laptop for 150€ and internet for 15€ a month.

    there will be about 240 000 laptops for the kids and 250 000 for teachers and the other people.


    the thing that ****s me in the ass is that they are cutting everything that helps poor, sick, handicapped, and old people and then they suddenly offer laptops to families that almost don't have money to feed them selfs or have no water/electricity and to people that have lots of money.

    i would like to see your take on this. please. and if you have any doubts please ask and i will respond.
     
  2. Glider

    Glider /dev/null

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    So, after reading through the "I'm not rich and it's unfair" essay you wrote I ask you, if it's so bad in Portugal, why don't you move? I suggest Belgium, 52% of your wage ends up with the government... Point being, every country has it's problems, and the grass is always greener on the other side. If you feel that there is lots of fraud buy 'the rich' (and I do mean seriously, not envious), exercise your rights, and elect a different government.

    Now, about the 150euro laptop... More and more PC's are getting important in the educational system. I for one wouldn't be able to study without one. Therefor I can only applaud such initiatives. Belgium has a similar initiative, called "Internet voor Iedereen" (Internet for everyone), where they bundle a desktop+Broadband (850€) or a laptop+broadband (990€). So you are lucky to be able to get one for 150€.
     
  3. Ramble

    Ramble Ginger Nut

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    I support a cheap laptop for students that don't have enough to own a computer of their own.

    I can see Glider has been captured by the evil Relix supporters as well (how long have you had that thing?).
     
  4. DougEdey

    DougEdey I pwn all your storage

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    I can see where you're coming from, benefits should be used to allow people to live that cannot, giving people a laptop for €150 won't help them pay for food, won't help their rent or their bills.
     
  5. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    I thought i did not need to mention but i am OK as i am, i am the so called middle class and have few financial problems, i pay my taxes and want to pay them and i want to help people that need help.
    I don't want to be rich and i don't care to be rich, i just want enough to survive and do the stuff i do.


    note that the next is not a rant or a ""I'm not rich and it's unfair" essay" , and i am not crying about this, i am just stating some information so you can better picture what i want to say.

    As for Belgium, about the same amount of population as Portugal, a PPP about 37% bigger, compulsory voting, cold climate compared to here, water in the rivers are of the worse quality, has a very big percentage of literate population, almost the same amount of Unemployment as Portugal, minimum wage of 1 210€ in 2004.
    hmmm......nice country you have there.... one of you gets in his minimum wage 3 times what one of us gets in his minimum wage, 52% of your gets to the pockets of the Gov, meaning that you keep a "clean" 580€ of your minimum wage after tax......
    and consider that i don't know the exact numbers but i think we are very close to 40%-50% of out wage goes to the government via taxes.

    and you say "elect a different government" like i could just go out and fire the government, remember that we don't have your compulsory voting.

    :thumb:

    edit: "why don't you move?"
    With what money? anyway i love my island and i am OK here, and always vote on other political parties. i just wrote this just to ask if you think it is better to give laptops and internet that will be mostly used to watch porn and pirate stuff and play games or to give jobs, health and better schools?

    i forgot to say, these kids will be in voting age in the next elections, guess who will they say thanks to.

    Glider, i cant seem to find the amount of hours you guys work a week, can you give me that info? IIRC ours is 40 hours.
     
    Last edited: 3 Jun 2007
  6. Glider

    Glider /dev/null

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    It just appeared... Damn, I didn't change it... I hope I have a copy of my original avatar somewhere after the infection has gone away (I'm affraid I don't)...
     
  7. Ramble

    Ramble Ginger Nut

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    Relix is infecting the internets!
     
  8. DougEdey

    DougEdey I pwn all your storage

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    We work 37.5 hours a week normally here (exc lunch breaks). Minimum wage depends on your age, but 18+ was £5.05 last I checked, so that works out at £9840~ a year, normal tax break is at about £5000, so that works out at about £8500 after tax (most guesstimates). €12 516.
     
  9. vetlel

    vetlel What's a Dremel?

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    The same popularity politics you have here, in spain.

    I think the problem here is that countries that never had a history of efficient/clear politics and general governmental efficiency, now have to do without a hefty subsidy from abroad. And even worse; they have to account for
    lack of progress, if occured.

    So, (useless) projects that get a lot of media coverage, and obviously cost a lot of money looking at it from the outside (promise any computer manufacturer a 10 year contract to provide computers to the government, they are happy to get rid of their ancient laptops next to free.Heck, play it right, and you would actually make some money out of a sca(e)m like that.)

    Timed right, this could get you just the right amount of time to keep Brussels breathing down your neck during your time at power.

    I could go on about this, but i think you get my drift....

    (And yes, i am not impressed by people in politics)
     
  10. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    My take (since you asked) is this: it is just another a political stunt --worthy of Tony Blair, who has concocted similar schemes in the past:

    Logistically, it is easier and cheaper to (promise to) supply everyone with a basic laptop and internet account than to address the complex socio-economic difficulties that plague the lower classes. These superficial showy initiatives looks good in the public eye. It looks good in the eyes of other countries, too: see how modern and technologically/educationally hip we are, etc.

    You can also pass some business the way of your political/business mates, as vetlel suggests. No prizes for guessing that José Sócrates and/or associates will have some stock in certain PC or telecommunications companies.

    But I think that actually this scheme is going to benefit the middle classes for once. The rich already have laptops, the poor don't care --they'd rather have a Playstation to keep the kids quiet (they can always swap, I suppose) or they will just sell the laptop to fund their next meal/cigarettes/drink/drugs... The middle classes however are the ones who may not otherwise be able to afford such a machine easily, but will be most inclined to put it to good educational use. These days, computer literacy and internet access is becoming as important as knowing how to read and write, and access to books.
     
  11. Ramble

    Ramble Ginger Nut

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    I'm pretty sure not every poor person is some drugged up smoker who has 10 kids. Some of them must have a valid reason for being poor in the first place.
     
  12. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    You mean the drugged up smokers with ten kids don't?
     
  13. vetlel

    vetlel What's a Dremel?

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    Relax! Some people still think that being political correct/ignorant is the way to go....
     
  14. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    i have some more news about this......

    the partners on this program are:
    Microsoft
    Intel
    Cisco
    Ericsson
    Prológica (they install and implement IT stuff)
    JP Sá Couto (these guys supply lots of brands http://www.jpsacouto.pt/ look on the bottom)

    the cash will come from the 3 main mobile communication companies:
    Vodafone
    TMN
    Sonaecom

    word is that the laptop is this one:

    http://event.asus.com/eeepc/

    Display:7"
    CPU & Chipset: Intel mobile CPU & chipset
    OS: Linux/ Microsoft Windows XP compatible
    Communication: 10/100 Mbps Ethernet; 56K modem
    WLAN: WiFi 802.11b/g
    Graphic: Intel UMA
    Memory: 512MB, DDR2-400
    Storage: 4/ 8/ 16GB Flash
    Webcam: 300K pixel video camera
    Audio: Hi-Definition Audio CODEC; Built-in stereo speaker; Built-in microphone
    Battery Life: 3hrs (4 cells: 5200mAh, 2S2P)
    Dimension & Weight: 22.5 x 16.5 x 2.1~3.5cm, 0.89kg

    edit: apparently the price tag is about 200$ for the 4GB model
     
    Last edited: 25 Jun 2007
  15. cpemma

    cpemma Ecky thump

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    Substitute "more common than" and I'll agree. ;)

    UK schemes
    But
    :duh:
     
  16. Nexxo

    Nexxo * Prefab Sprout – The King of Rock 'n' Roll

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    ^^^ A bit like government plans to discourage car use without the public transport network to back it up, then. :p
     

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