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If Bush was an idiot......

Discussion in 'Serious' started by D3s3rt_F0x, 30 Dec 2011.

  1. D3s3rt_F0x

    D3s3rt_F0x New Member

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    what does that make Obama?

    Well there's the question; I want to spark a debate, as a lot of people basically wrote off the Bush presidency (plenty to dislike, but didn't get credit where it was due), oh plus I like to be a bit controversial.

    So there was hope when Obama came in and he came in on a promise of hope, to close Guantanamo, end the war in Iraq and make the United States a safer place and bring free health care to those who needed it. But where is he now and all these policies now?

    Free healthcare he brought in for those who need it, the issue is his healthcare plan came from the right. Mitt Romney implemented it in Massachusetts and Newt Gringrich backed it. So whatever the current presidential candidates say, Obama basically implemented a Republican policy, that came from a right wing think tank.

    Now Iraq, Obama came in promising the end of the war and troops out, only issue is he wanted them to stay and the only reason they are coming out is that Iraq would not grant troops immunity from any crimes committed.

    But now lets get onto the good stuff, Obama has carried on and expanded Bush era policies relating to Terrorism, Guantanamo remains open, bombings using drones has expanded and has been used to kill US citizens without due process and he will not be vetoing a law that will allow US citizens to be detained in Guantanamo without due process and held as enemy combatants.

    So what does all this make Obama?

    Oh forgot to add as well Dick Cheney thinks he is doing a good job.
     
  2. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    But I think one has to realize that promises during campaigns have meant jack **** since the beginning of time. It's one large pick me! Ordeal. Not to mention that in US politics, it's Congress not the President that actually has the power. It's been established.

    What we have to remember here is that Obama never really promised to be progressive at all, the guy was a staunch middle of the road kind of guy. So you could say: Bush is an idiot (because he really was, his congress not so much, but himself? Yes) and Obama is a disappointment to those who didn't actually pay attention.

    As an aside: If SOPA does end up passing, I will literally start an: "Occupy Congress" movement. With guns..and tanks.
     
  3. Cei

    Cei pew pew pew

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    Bush was an idiot because he couldn't string a coherent sentence together, and constantly made massive mistakes in anything he said. Oh, and he choked on a pretzel.

    Totally not related to policy.
     
  4. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    1. Please back up your statements with some evidence...

    2. Everything Obama has tried to do: health reforms, closing Gitmo, has been obstructed by the Republicans in Congress. No wonder he did not manage to achieve as much as he wanted to.

    3. One does not simply withdraw from Iraq. Still, they are going now so he made good on that promise.

    4. Obama inherited a poisoned chalice. Two unwinnable wars that alienated the Middle east, an economy spiralling into depression, unaffordable health care. He is trying to fix all that, and understandably struggling a bit. Then he has a bunch of Republicans on his neck sabotaging his policies --and the country-- for political brownie points.

    But as Cei says, whatever Obama is, he is not a dry alcoholic overprivilliged silver-spooned pretzel choking incoherent moron who cannot string a sentence together. He is Not Bush, frankly, which is why he got elected.
     
    Last edited: 30 Dec 2011
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  5. craigp84

    craigp84 New Member

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    Obama is a step forward in all important matters, would you agree with that? He's proven better than the last guy, so credit where it's due. However i expected more.

    The question on my mind is where does America go next? On the basis that not enough has changed / improved in his term, i'd say Obama should go, but who to replace him with? There doesn't appear to be a step forward available currently.

    However, that view does not take into account the American people. I have less faith in the American people. I believe they've allowed themselves to become too divided economically.
     
  6. wgy

    wgy New Member

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    +1 Nexxo.

    My thought exactly, however i'm lacking the knowledge to make an educated guess on new leadership and policies.
     
  7. Combinho

    Combinho Ten kinds of awesome

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    It doesn't go anywhere. It stays exactly where it has been for the past decade, as its current political system prohibits any meaningful change (so how's that healthcare working out for you, America?). At the end of the day, there are too many vested interests, to much bipartisan bickering and very few putting their country above their party.
     
  8. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    +1 for Nexxo, how the hell can he do anything if the Repubs filibuster everything he wants to accomplish?
     
  9. walle

    walle Well-Known Member

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    There's the answer, from the minions perspective he's doing a sterling job.

    Latest manoeuvre was to not veto a Bill which completely destroyed Habeas Corpus.

    Habeas Corpus..

    Ratified by the English in the 11th century, that's right. In England. Later brought over to the colonies and into the constitution.
     
  10. walle

    walle Well-Known Member

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    Regarding healthcare.

    Healthcare is important, there is no question about that. None. But more important still, are nontoxic/non genetically modified/ half fabricated foods.

    Edit:
    IMHO
     
  11. lp1988

    lp1988 Well-Known Member

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    The problem America faces are the same problems it has been facing the past twenty years, the "trickle down effect" as Bush loved to use to cut taxes for the rich "to get more investments" has never worked but have only left the US with no proper middle class. Add to this the lack of proper control of the entire economy both in the state but also on a macro economic scale, we have a broken, inefficient and uncompetitive economy. And what is done by the US ? they complain about China devaluating the Yin and "stealing" American jobs, which is by the way NOT the way to get the Chinese to revaluate their currency.

    In order for the US to even come out of this reasonably well huge market reforms, economic reforms and social reforms are needed but the American people are scared to become "communists" and way away from anything that the republicans like to call un-patriotic. Some actually hoped Obama was the one to do this, but disappointingly he took only small steps, afraid of going too far, and it really doesn't help that the Republicans seem to try to sabotage all he tries just for the heck of it.

    What Obama does is a step in the right direction, unfortunately we need a leap.
     
  12. Combinho

    Combinho Ten kinds of awesome

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    Erm, no. GM foods are the best shot we have at feeding the world. But hey, sensationalism is more fun than feeding Africa. Are GM foods toxic? I suggest you go do some research before spouting nonsense.
     
  13. C-Sniper

    C-Sniper Stop Trolling this space Ądmins!

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    The problem really isn't the president but the congress. Since both sides are so focused on destroying each other's plans our country suffers. This mostly stems from each political party (wasn't there a warning about political parties a long time ago?) trying to say that they are the better people for the job when they only represent the fringe of each side.

    IMO, i think it would be better if someone dissolved the political parties, electoral college, congressional budgets, took our current congress out back and shot them, and then allowed for re-elections for people who really wanted to help out the economy and the people.
     
  14. walle

    walle Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps I phrased it wrong? Let's try this then...

    Nontoxic foods. Non genetically modified foods. No half fabricated foods.

    Edit:

    Genetically modified/engineered food need not be toxic. Foods which are sprayed with pesticides are toxic, for example.
     
    Last edited: 30 Dec 2011
  15. lp1988

    lp1988 Well-Known Member

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    No such thing any more, all food is in some way genetically modified.

    genetically modified food is just a term describing any food that has been selected due to sertain genetic traits, all dogs are genetically modified and all cow meat are genetically modified unless it came from an Aurochs.
     
  16. KayinBlack

    KayinBlack Currently Rebuilding

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    Thank you. I think that represents the thoughts of most of America. We didn't sign on for the buffoonery that every elected official I can think of has been up to when we elected them. It's quite evident that Congress is in it for themselves, and the rest of the country is along for the ride. Obama talked great ideas, but has been unable to execute (for myriad reasons, not all within his control) and the effect is the same as if the ideas hadn't even been put on the table, unless you count the broken dreams of the American populace.

    I've ceased to conjecture about the relative intelligence of presidents, and I've become resigned to the fact that we elect ungovernable ultraradicals without any care for what happens after they retire. Most don't even care about the ramifications of the decisions they make in the here and now. America is tired of politicians. We need leaders.
     
  17. MiNiMaL_FuSS

    MiNiMaL_FuSS ƬӇЄƦЄ ƁЄ ƇƠƜƧ ӇЄƦЄ.

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    I agree with Nick Nexxo


    I love how all my comments in the serious thread can now pretty much be summarised by the above.
     
  18. Nexxo

    Nexxo Queue Jumper

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    Pedantry aside, walle has got a point. At a time when pizza apparently is now a vegetable (Washington Post's dissembing notwithstanding --how low the mighty have fallen...) and meat that was rejected for pet food can be fed to school children, affordable health care may be the least of America's problems.

    Note, for the record, that Obama was against this, but Congress scuppered him on this also.
     
  19. ufk

    ufk Licenced Fool

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    Obama is damned, damned if he tries to improve things, damned if he doesn't.

    Still at least he appears to be capable of rational thought, unlike Dubya.
     
  20. Combinho

    Combinho Ten kinds of awesome

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    Clearly that is atrocious, and needs to be sorted. I'm sure health care would not be anywhere so big an issue if children were taught to eat healthily from a young age and not fed junk food in school. Jamie's American Food Revolution was a real eye-opener to these issues, and was deeply saddening.

    However I never got the impression that walle was not discussing this, it seemed more like a standard knee-jerk GM rant. However, GM foods is made a massive issue of, when it's not all that big a deal. I don't know of any cases of GM foods causing any serious problems ecologically or to humans (although any links to serious papers on the issue would be fascinating). True, this is early days, so we need to closely monitor the effects of GM foods. However, as far as I am aware, there are rigorous testing and approval procedures for such foods. And I'm pretty sure lack of healthcare is responsible for more deaths in the USA than GM foods. It's all very MMRish.

    At the end of the day GM crops seem to be an excellent way to potential produce more crops that are more nutritious, and it would be criminal to throw away that potential based on scare stories and media overreaction.

    Well one can argue that GM can reduce the need for pesticide use. They are not the same issue, and indeed GM is often seen as the solution to the latter.
     

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