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Illegal downloaders 'face UK ban'- VM to Pilot Scheme

Discussion in 'Serious' started by steveo_mcg, 12 Feb 2008.

  1. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg What's a Dremel?

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    You as usual are missing your own point. Your earlier claim was that the system will adapt and embrace p2p i countered that by pointing out that the companies are using p2p to reduce there own costs not benefit the consumer. Some one free loading is making the choice how much of there bandwidth they are willing to use, with the iplayer there is no throttle so it pretty much kills your caps. They are then free to use there files they have downloaded to use as they wish. THESE SYSTEMS ARE USELESS, i tried to subtly point it out but you've again missed it. I don't want to watch tv on the computer which is permanently connected to the web i want to watch tv on my TV!

    P4P isn't exactly using new tech either edonkey already prefers physically lower connections where possible. Large corporations are not going to help p2p technology advance any more than microsoft is going to help Linux.
     
  2. impar

    impar Minimodder

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    Greetings!
    If opting for some P2P aproach leads to reduced costs, better for them. Would it make sense if they adopted a more costlier system?
    I havent used these programs, but googling iPlayer reveals that it is being seen as a success.
    With network information provided by the ISPs?
     
  3. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg What's a Dremel?

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    I don't care what system they want to use but i resent paying for bandwidth for them to show me ads. iPlayer is fine if you only want to watch tv on the computer YOU DOWNLOAD ON! Read my earlier posts! ISP's don't need to provide the data its quite obvious who is digitally closer too who, the ping for example.
     
  4. impar

    impar Minimodder

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    Greetings!
    You do get access to some legitimate content.
    How do you envision your ideal system?
    But those optimizing techniques werent quantified. Verizon tests were.

    Topic related:
    Japan to strip Internet for illegal downloaders: report

    Japanese companies plan to cut off the Internet connection of anyone who illegally downloads files in one of the world's toughest measures against online piracy, a report said Saturday.

    Faced with mounting complaints from the music, movie and video-game industries, four associations representing Japan's Internet service providers have agreed to take drastic action, the Yomiuri Shimbun said.

    The newspaper, quoting unnamed sources, said service providers would send e-mails to people who repeatedly made illegal copies and terminate their connections if they did not stop.
     
  5. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    lets see what will happen with that....... humans are more random than.... well... random, this could go all they way from everyone buying stuff to a full fledged embargo on media from the people.....
     
  6. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg What's a Dremel?

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    Ideal system Moives/Music: I pay a fair amount to download DRM FREE to use either on my htpc or my ipod/mp4 player or my main pc
    Ideal system TV 1: I pay a fair subscription to download DRM FREE files to use on my htpc or my ipod/mp4 player or my main pc. Note this sub would be to one service which covers a spectrum of TV not one publisher.
    Ideal system TV 2: I pay nothing to download from an ad supported DRM FREE service to use on my htpc or my ipod/mp4 player or my main pc. The files should be updated with new ads every few weeks thus negating the need for time limitation as the files.

    You'll note in the above examples the important two words DRM FREE have been made bold for your benefit. Depending on the cost of the service or volume of ads p2p may be acceptable.
     
  7. impar

    impar Minimodder

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    Greetings!
    I really dont see an embargo being successful. People have too much free time.
    And if the systems offered DRM FREE files but watermarked? Would you be happy with it?
     
  8. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg What's a Dremel?

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    Yes
     
  9. DXR_13KE

    DXR_13KE BananaModder

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    ...which they would use in other things.... and of course, there is free media around and there is also your back collections of stuff.....

    edit: don't underestimate the human way of making stuff very random....

    edit2: i wonder what would be the effect of a full fledged embargo on all kinds of media during 2 months..... especially during some big media title launch....
     
  10. impar

    impar Minimodder

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  11. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg What's a Dremel?

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    Looks like VM are going to be the first to roll out this system.


    From reading around it looks like the BPI will be in Torrent swarms as opposed to active monitoring from VM. Still its either lip service to the government to try and avoid legislation or the dying breath of an ISP. Unless all get on board with this then any isp which doesn't may find its self with difficulty. TBH i think VM is more exposed to the risk of customers leaving since if a VM customer leaves they take there phone and TV business (and all ad revenue) with them.
     
  12. impar

    impar Minimodder

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    Greetings!
    Yep:
    Yep:
     
  13. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg What's a Dremel?

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    There will always be an elsewhere, thats market forces.

    As i have said all through this thread, it stinks that they are even entertaining this kind of thing it is not the place of the special interest group or ISP to enforce laws.
     
  14. boiled_elephant

    boiled_elephant Merom Celeron 4 lyfe

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    We don't need no water...

    This discussion is turning into a solid disagreement.

    *boiled_elephant encourages other people to start making input again

    On a personal note, I'm pirating a bit less this year. I've started moving the focus onto finding ways to make money, that I mightn't have to pirate. I still do it for music, because I buy if I like, and for TV shows (read: Screenwipe), because they never come onto DVD.

    /pride
     
  15. impar

    impar Minimodder

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    Greetings!
    Not if ISPs see a way to profit.
    Imagine ISPs blocking P2P freeloading and creating their own online stores, their costs would lower since there would be less connections to other ISPs and they would sell content through their own (cheaper) network infrastructure.
     
  16. steveo_mcg

    steveo_mcg What's a Dremel?

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    Free market works like this.

    ISP 1 to 9 enforce BPI letters and kick users
    ISP_ 10 sees gap in market for users above....
    Are you seeing where this is going. ISP 10 becomes largest player BPI attacks them ISP 2 sees gap in market fills it the circle continues until BPI/RIAA starts suing customers again. Much like the RIAA/BPI you don't seem to be following this.

    Left to its own devices the market will decide on the most efficient method of distribution and renumeration, the record industry likes the current system and is fighting very hard to defend it. The government tends to favor the free market and will only legislate if enough pressure (money) is applied to them from the record industry. The ISP see the change in the wind and are trying very hard not be legislated against whilst not pissing off customers to the point where they become ISP 1 to 9.
    Legislation is perhaps inevitable and it will come in with the guise of protecting IP it will earn the government much money from the Record Industry and the government will have a nice new perfectly legal method of snooping on customers.
     
  17. Ramble

    Ramble Ginger Nut

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    I'm on VM, luckily I barely download music so I should be alright, even so there are ways to get around things.
     
  18. quack

    quack Minimodder

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    You do realise that unless you're a Nielsen Family it doesn't matter whether you watch it the live broadcast, later on a PVR, or download it via torrents. ;)
     
  19. Matticus

    Matticus ...

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    Its the same sort of thing that happens with the newspapers and the press and them self monitoring, they have the PCC (Press complaints commision), they basically deal with complaints and any issues with what they print themselves so that no legislation comes into play, because they know when legislation comes in they are screwed and will be limited with what they print therefore cannot make as much money.

    Looks like VM are like steveo says paying lip service to avoid legislation. They know that if they are proactive, or atleast look that way, then they can do a subpar job and only catch the more extreme offenders, so the government and record labels are happy for a while and VM and other ISPs can keep there customer base.

    Also I cannot see how they could justify cutting off the internet completly, ie all ISPs are forced not to accept you after the ban. Peadophiles and terrorists get these rights taken away, I am sure they cannot treat the average downloader like this because they downloaded a few songs. what about work, internet retailers, banking, they are all going to be negatively effected by this.

    I am going to assume that most of the people who are downloading tons of mainstream music, as this seems to be the main industry that has a problem with it, are going to be teenage girls and boys, who do not pay for the internet connection. You cannot ban the mother and father from driving because the child was caught speeding 4 too many times.

    These are just scare tactics, with VM jumping in to try and stop legislation getting involved as they know it will be severly detrimental to them if anything like this passes through parliament.

    IF this ever does come into play, if you are stupid enough to ignore 2 warnings, then its your own fault.

    Also could someone shed some light onto where programs such as peerguardian come into play? I know they are good for blocking out the record companies and anti piracy companies, but surely they are no good at stopping your ISP from seeing what you are doing.
     
  20. ufk

    ufk Licenced Fool

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    All peerguardian and the like do is block connections that are on a list that supposedly contains the IP ranges of various companies and institutions that "police" copyright infringement. They do not stop your ISP from seeing what you are doing, you use their "pipe" after all and all your traffic flows down that connection, however I do believe that, in the UK at least, the ISP doesn't snoop on the contents of the traffic, just the types of traffic, this is the information that they use for traffic shaping (Yes we know you're doing it no matter how much you deny it (points at pipex cu*tstomer services)). They'd need some sort of official warrant to actually snoop on the contents. People get picked up by companies like mediasentry who are literally listening in on the p2p networks, connecting to people in torrent swarms etc, they then report you to your isp for copyright infringement, the ISP then contacts you with a nice little email that may read like the following. IP address's and file names removed to protect the not so innocent, and so that you lot don't know how sad I am

    This was received despite the use of Peerguardian, although its the first one I've ever had and I naughtily admit to dabbling since the days of napster and dialup

     

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