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Illegal downloaders 'face UK ban'- VM to Pilot Scheme

Discussion in 'Serious' started by steveo_mcg, 12 Feb 2008.

  1. DaveVader

    DaveVader Fast Action Response Team

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    It almost makes me want to stop downloading and start using the internet for a much worse crime, just so I don't get caught ... (use your imagination and also; it was a joke)
     
  2. Bluephoenix

    Bluephoenix Spoon? What spoon?

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    here in the USA thats precisely what would happen.
     
  3. completemadness

    completemadness What's a Dremel?

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    You think you have rights in nazi britain?

    Anyway, this is a crazy idea, its just going to catch the average joe (well, maybe, if Encryption doesnt become standard in P2P software) who doesn't really understand, and probably wouldn't buy/afford it anyway
    also, if you encrypt your traffic - what are they supposed to do?

    Your bank details should go over a HTTPS (SSL Encrypted tunnel) - so no-one can snoop your details - if not, talk to your bank
     
  4. mclean007

    mclean007 Officious Bystander

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    Not at all. If a law enforcement officer can join the swarm for a given torrent (which is a given unless you have some kind of private network, in which case you have the whole other issue of vetting members to keep out the feds), encrypted or not, then he can know what the file is and where the other peers are and notify their ISPs accordingly, who may be obliged to apply this three strikes rule. There is logically no way to operate a public file sharing system which will shield its users entirely from law enforcement. QED.
     
  5. Trefarm

    Trefarm No matter what... It's all good

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    Boo... email and write to your Mp expressing your disgust at this invasion of your privacy, get every other person you know to do the same.

    It may not work but at least you tried, we're at a position now with our national politics where a concerted campaign might just work... the Gov are leery of being influenced by Business's or Lobbies that represent them, after endless cash for (insert your own little bribe here) scandals... Mr Brown is currently doing about as well in the polls as the Pope would in Iran... Standard sweeping assumptions are that 'all heavy pirates are under 25 and you know they don't bother to vote' you want to bet on how many industry represetatives are waving charts at ministers with lots of nice coloured 'statistics' proving this...

    Write a letter and promise on the grave of your dead granny that if this happens you'll never vote for Labour again or any other threat (not bomb based obviously) that sounds good, surely worth the price of a stamp?
     
  6. ufk

    ufk Licenced Fool

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    UK ISPs already threaten to terminate service, I had my first email about downloading the other day (it was an open wireless connection honest :eyebrow: ) besides quoting bits of the Berne Convention at me they also gave me this little snippet
    meanwhile they cant be arsed to respond to emails and snailmails to their customer relations department concerning why I am suddenly a Tiscali customer not a Pipex one (and yes I know Tiscali now own Pipex) I just dont want to be a Tiscali customer ever again, they couldn't organise a fornication in a house of ill repute.
     
  7. eek

    eek CAMRA ***.

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    Piracy is a crime... just because it is so easy 99% of us on here do it doesn't make it right. It would be funny if ISPs turned down the same road as insurance companies, offering customers who haven't been caught/banned in the last x years cheaper rates, and penalising all those that do by charging them more. How many years no pr0n bonus do you have?

    I see it a bit like speeding... I'm happy to break the law and speed and if I get caught by a camera then fair enough, I broke the law and have to face the consequences.
     
  8. completemadness

    completemadness What's a Dremel?

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    isnt that like entrapment?
     
  9. Bungle

    Bungle Rainbow Warrior

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    I understand your point, but if the decryption software is independent of the P2P software, the case becomes a matter of proving the user has the decryption software, with the intent of decrypting an illegal file. Otherwise you could simply say you were sharing junk data (spam). Alot harder for the authorities to prove.
     
  10. maha_x

    maha_x What's a Dremel?

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    Yeah, and p0rn takes another 60% and 50% for spam, or what were the figures... Reminds me of a famous Finnish skijumper who estimated he's chances like this: "hmmm, about 50/60."

    Anyhow, the point of this article was ISP level packet inspection, which simply fails to work in the age of encryption and such.

    How about an invite only network, that allows you to look at the warez of the friends of your friends? So allways, when a new member joins, somebody has to vote for him/her. Then we'd get the first internet-undercover-agents. HAH. I'm not saying I endorse piracy, my point is that it's a very difficult problem.
     
  11. completemadness

    completemadness What's a Dremel?

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    As long as the RIAA/MPAA/Whatever treats us like criminals, the more likely we are to be criminals
    I mean, why when i go out and buy a DVD do i get a load of warnings saying they will break down my door if i pirate it - I JUST BOUGHT IT, The whole industry is backwards, they quote "damages" without having many real facts (like, did a download = a lost sale?)

    Personally, i have few problems pirating, as long as prices are obscene (how many consumers do you think own photoshop?) or availability is bad, and as long as i don't feel that Ive cheated anyone out of a sale, then i don't see the problem pirating

    EG, if i download Crysis, play it for an hour or 2, and then decide its rubbish and stop - did they really loose a sale? (or at least one they should have had) would i have bought the game if i couldn't download it?

    The entire industry really needs to sit down and think about what their doing, how their doing it and what consumers want - and maybe even, shock horror, improve the system
    EG, spending £millions on some new protection (The HD-DVD one, AACS? as an example) which gets broken in 3 weeks - is that money well spent? who pays for it? not the people who its supposed to stop - yes - the people who actually pay have to fork out for this

    Sure, don't make it stupidly easy to pirate, but also make sure things have such good "value for money" that its not worth pirating it, and that the risks of doing it outweigh the cost
    To give another example, what stops your walking out the local supermarket with a chocolate bar - of course, if you get caught, was it really worth it?

    Edit:
    I don't know why we are talking about p0rn all of a sudden, as far as I'm aware its not illegal (as long as it doesn't involve minors)
    Why do ISP's care if you look at some p0rn site or at youtube? who cares?
     
  12. hawky84

    hawky84 SilentModder

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    Um if you haven't paid for it then it is illegal, just because it is p0rn doesn't mean that the thought provoking script, plot, scene, etc haven't been paid for by someone and that they are not charging for it. After all nothing is for free ;)
     
  13. ufk

    ufk Licenced Fool

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    Bad analogy, "piracy" doesn't usually involve a 1 ton and a bit hunk of metal moving at 40mph in a 30 limit, yes you get caught by a camera fair does, you hit a kid at that speed not so fair does, admittedly speed doesn't always kill, inappropiate speed often does. And yes I do speed, normally on empty roads at stupid 'o' clock in the morning, still breaking the law but I'm unlikely to kill anyone (except the copper in the bush waiting to pounce on me).

    Now piracy on the other hand if taken in its literal meaning does usually involve harm upon others, normally at sea and generally involving armed robbery, both are criminal offences although one has been state sanctioned in the past.

    The media and various unnamed entities (you know who I mean) portrays copyright infringement as piracy, a misnomer for sure. It involves no violence, no people are harmed mentally or physically, no physical medium has changed hands, just folk who would otherwise do without. I myself, yes I have been known to download stuff from the net, I have also been known to part with some of my hard earned on actually buying the product afterwards. Copyright infringement is a civil offence, as opposed to the criminal charge of piracy. Selling it on is probably a criminal offence, counterfeit goods and all that.

    Good product + Reasonable price + No DRM then they'll make sales, probably a lot of sales, however mediocre product + blatant ripoff price then they'll get people who'll try before they buy (or not) and others who will rip them off as much as they're ripping off the consumer with vastly inflated artificial pricing.
     
  14. hawky84

    hawky84 SilentModder

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    hmm i wonder... if the ISPs are legally forced to take action on the 7,000,000 or so people in the UK that are supposedly illegally downloading media, wont they be losing out on a lot of custom? 7,000,000 * £17.99 = £125,930,000 hmm my business sense might not be that honed in but I would say that is a big loss. This is taking that if you are banned you don't have to keep on paying your £17.99 a month? Ah maybe this is a good way to get out of the cr&ppy contracts that you get stuck into before you even get to try the service out!!! Excellent I have been looking for a way to get rid of my Virgin sh1te package without paying the £50 get out fee
     
  15. DarkLord7854

    DarkLord7854 What's a Dremel?

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    You can with uTorrent, there's an encryption option
     
  16. completemadness

    completemadness What's a Dremel?

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    oh, you mean "pirated" pr0n

    I thought you just meant pr0n in general, of which there is lots free on the internet
     
  17. atanum141

    atanum141 I fapped to your post!

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    This is why i use emule.

    Ill be encrypting all P2P traffic now
     
  18. hawky84

    hawky84 SilentModder

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    emule sucks ass!!!

    sorry for the pun couldn't help it
     
  19. atanum141

    atanum141 I fapped to your post!

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    Ahhh a witty retort. :rolleyes:
     
  20. Ramble

    Ramble Ginger Nut

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    No, entrapment is coercing someone into commiting a crime, whereas simply joining the swarm is coercing no-one.

    EDIT: I'm hoping this won't go through, offers no commercial benefit to the ISPs or it's customers, and I'd bet quite a lot at least the conservatives in the lords and commons would attempt to stop this passing.
     

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