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Gaming Is Console Gaming Dying?

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Sifter3000, 14 Dec 2009.

  1. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    Oh gods this is becoming such a battle.

    What really boggles my mind is why this guy is trying to say, he has no clear stance.
     
  2. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    I smell a lockdown =(

    Warrior, how many of the top 10 are console exclusives? Now, how many are PC exclusives? Without looking I can guess the Sims and WOW are there. They usually grace the top 10 through out the year and atm they're both PC exclusives. As for RTS, red alert 3 was in the top 10 for the month of its release and maybe a month after that (would need to check). Like 99% of games it comes, it goes. RTS aren't popular atm, kinda like 2nd world war movies, their will come a time when they will make a return. Like most things in life, swings and roundabouts. PC's will always be needed for general tasks and HPC therefore the need for graphics cards for those tasks. Even if PC gaming wanes, I still don't think it will die. The hardware will always be there to play games and there will always be some sort of fan base. At worse a PC will become some that happens to play games. Im sure Nvidia or ATI could port console code themselves and play whatever console thats on the markets game disks without a "PC Version" if it ever got to that extreme level. Even then, you never know, the next bedroom encoder could rise from the ashes and create the next "doom".
     
  3. Warrior24_7

    Warrior24_7 New Member

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    You don't make any sense. The only thing you are doing is proving my point. How have they jumped ship? Well after having a negative attitude toward consoles and making statements to that fact, "they would never bring their "A" title there"," the console can't handle the code", "can't handle the game", yada, yada ,yada... All of them have said it. Now? Not only have they jumped in the water, they've stripped of all of their clothes and jumped in! They're now saying bad stuff about the PC! They're bringing new optimized code, engines, techniques, and games to the console! Was money a factor? You damn right it was! You can make waaay more money on the console, you also have a way better development enviroment on a console. No more wondering did this fool upgrade,what CPU, GPU, OS, ect are they using. You know what your working with. Your game is also much more secure on a console so you don't have to worry about rampant, uncheck, piracy of your hard work and revenue! The reason you hear the term "console ports" is because the console was the "lead' platform, and they just "ported" the game to the PC, sometimes very late and with with no extras. MW2 is a prime example of this, YOU ARE PLAYING THE EXACT SAME GAME AS THE XBOX 360! So much for the vaunted "flexibility" of the PC. This has nothing to do with the console at all, so don't blame it on the console, because these developers can do whatever they want on the PC, they understand the hardware, they just choose not to. That leads into my next point.

    I don't hate PC gaming or gamers, I am one. I don't hate consoles (obviously), I don't think they're "inferior" and PCs "superior". I just don't believe the PC hype. The reasons for this are many, and very obvious to me. So I'll just leave it there. All it's gonna do is start another thread and another argument. So because I don't wear a "I hate consoles" hat, means I'm against the PC for some people. You're free to choose whatever platform you want, why would I care? But a console gamer should be able to do the same. On here, he can't.
     
  4. Warrior24_7

    Warrior24_7 New Member

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    Lockdown? Why? Here we go again. Threats, lockdowns, editings, and bannings. The easiest way to stop the truth is to silence it. Don't like the message, shoot the messenger. Do you think anything but money and profit motivate a business man? To him if it doesn't make dollars, it doesn't make sense. I'm a gamer, so if it doesn't give me a better game playing experience I can't get elsewhere, then I don't care. It's a waste of my time and money. To me, it's about the games! So I don't care what "else" your PC can do. Mine can do it too, okay. I don't care that you can send email on a PC, type a letter, or even make your PC remotely do a backflip. I don't care! It's about the games! Are there good games on the PC? You bet! Are there games that the PC does better than the console? Yep! But for the most part, when it comes to gaming, the PC is over priced, over hyped, and overrated! Don't believe me? Then name "5" DX10/DX10.1/DX11 games you've played in the last 3 years! If thats too much, then name "1"! I'm not talking modes, "effects", lighting in this room or that, I'm talking "game", the whole damn thing! Name it! So, you've got a $1500 CPU, 1100w PSU, 15 fans, water cooling kit, 24 gigs of ram, Quad SLI'd/Crossfried cards, 15" inch screen, 10 TB HD, ect, ect, ect rig. Now you can put in your nice shiny copy of MW2... and play a 360 game! Don't get mad at me for telling you this, get mad at Intel, Nvidia, AMD/ATI, and the game developers for NOT telling you!
     
  5. Warrior24_7

    Warrior24_7 New Member

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    As far as the "next' Doom? EA will buy him, own him, and make him develope for the console!
     
  6. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    As proven in previous threads you can match the price of a PS3 and still have a gaming setup that out performs it. If you don't care that a PC can do so much more then that negates the fact that the 360 has sky and the PS3 can carry out full media center duties. In all honesty its those extras that sway you. How many people would own a PS3 if it didn't have blu-ray?

    You also say that its about gaming, 3D, eyefinity, insane high res gaming.I can also watch movies while gaming or chat on MSN, look up guides online all while gaming. That level of multi tasking isn't there yet with consoles. Modding is another huge advantage the PC has over consoles. I would happily take a PC version of oblivion/dragon age/ fallout 3/far cry 2 simply based on the modding community.

    Another reason people choose between consoles is controllers, another reason I chose PC over console gaming. While Id rather have a controller for racing, I couldn't play an RTS on consoles to save my life. I played C&C, red alert, retaliation etc on PS1 before the PC version and never looked back after switching. While im still good at FPS from console days, I do prefer the keyboard/mouse once I got use to it.

    Fair enough DX10 flopped and its early days for DX11. Mind you, the same marketing has been applied to FIFA games since the year dot.

    EA might very well buy him out, and release [insert game here] 100000000000000. At the end of the day they will stagnate everything, but the point still stands that for consoles to survive, they need that bedroom modder to take his first steps. ultimately that will be done on the PC since its the only platform to offer it.

    For me its all about the games too.... Modding, eyefinity, 3D vision, extreme multitasking, Keyboard and mouse enhancing the games I like to play. For MY needs PC is far superior for gaming. In the end its gonna come down to personal preferences. If anything Im thankful for console ports. Means I can max everything and play at high res at the same time. I may be playing an xbox games but the PC can do it far better inmy eyes.

    The reason for lockdown has nothing to do with the fact that anythings being silenced, its the fact the thread is now well off topic. Its turned into a flame war over which is better rather than Is console gaming dying. That fact that one is better has nothing to do with the point. Popularity is more important that whats better but individual needs needs differ so thats impossible to generalise about.

    Conclusion: Simple answer I don't think it is. alto of inovation is done on PC, and its where modders have their playground. We can assume that console gaming is well grounded too and will continue to be. In its current from console gaming won't survive tho. Playing against the world is the new thing and the best way to deliver media. Ultimately gaming will evolve and as a result so will consoles. They will survive just in a different form, but to do that PC gaming is needed.
     
    Last edited: 21 Dec 2009
  7. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    Consoles just need that new step that unfortunately no one's going to provide since there's too much money involved for change.
     
  8. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    I think Sony learnt that lesson with the cell. Inovation isn't the way, getting a console out there thats as powerful as its competitor and cheaper is the key. Wii was the cheapest but it sacrificed power, PS3 could be arguably the more powerful plus the advantage of blu-ray but since xbox games where limited to DVD size, blu-ray for gaming is a waste atm. Who knows what will happen next round. DVD's again? blu-ray? downloadable content? The new PSP will give sony an idea if the market is ready for that yet.
     
  9. Warrior24_7

    Warrior24_7 New Member

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    You have that completely wrong, completely wrong. You cannot match the price of the console with a gaming PC, THAT has been proven. People don't buy 360s and PS3s for sky and the media center abilities, they buy them to game! The best thing that happend to the 360...was the PS3! It launched a $600! Thats $200 more than the Xbox. Blu-Ray was the reason and the players let it sit on the shelf! Son'y s reasons for adding a Blu-Ray player had very little to do with gaming. They wanted the whole damn HD DVD market! The PS3 was the trojan horse, you dump millions of Blu-ray *er* PS3s in the market as game machines and capture that market by default! They destroyed Toshiba's rival HD DVD player, and now are the only game in town. Once they bring the PS3 to profitability (they break even with the new design), they'll make money hand over fist on licenseing fees, games, and movies. They had a 10 yr plan for PS3 not the 5 yr cycle that usually takes place.

    Multi-tasking is great, but it's not a selling point for the VAST majority of gamers...anywhere! Yes I CAN "watch" the news and game at the same time, my TV has picture-N-picture, as do many, I can chat online, but why? Why in the name of all I hold dear do I want another picture plastered in the middle of my TV during a gaming session?!! As far as modding is concerned, the answer is flat out NO!!! Not because the console can't do it, but because the console makers don't want it on their machines. This became evident when UTIII was released, Epic couldn't get them to agree to it. M$ said "we don't do that"! They want to keep complete control of their networks. Just look at the security of Live and PSN vs the PC! M$ will ban your ass millions at a time and won't blink! They've just done it! The networks are better for it too. I don't want to play with hackers, cheaters, botters and pirates. PC developers tried to take on the pirates and protect their investments, but recieved a vicious backlash. So they just all migrated over. Consoles have ALL TYPES of controllers. There is a wireless keyboard for ythe PS3 made by Logitech, there is also a mouse and Wii type combo pad thats absolutely bad ass, there are texting add-on pads ect. But again, this stuff is niche and people don't buy it.

    Yep, you ARE playing 360 games and it's BS! The PC market has it backwards, they market the hardware and not the games, they have no QC on these games either. So what you have is expensive hardware that must be updated and maintained, that plays console games that don't work! The PC gamer is caught in a vicious cylcle of marketing and updating by the hardware makers just to play what is nothing more than a console port! The game developers are not going to put any more effort into PC games than they have to, so you just don't see any of the bells and whistles that could be there to make the PC stand out! Its not there, it doesn't exist, it's a racket, a lie!!! You want to talk about raising the resolution and such, well also talk about "lowering" it too because the particular PC can't handle the game! This puts it visually inferior to it's console counterpart. There is no need to raise or lower anything on a console because the game is optimized to run perfectly on it! There is no need to waste resources on features that are just not needed.

    Lastly, the console IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE! It IS the market right now, and going forward! The PC is the weakest link in the chain and is treated as an afterthought. The goal of one central set top box that plays all media will be realized by a console. Its happening as we speak. The makers of OnLive see this and want a piece of the action, they just don't have all of the pieces yet. If they are even half way successful then that will impact the PC, as their will be no real reason to develop for it. Games have taken on Hollywood type budgets and no company is going to risk that kind of money on a platform that is in decline. "If" the PC dies, it'll be a slow one, it'll just bleed out with a lack of attention, games, and players continuing to migrate away. The "NEW" next gen consoles will make or break the PC. Either they'll help it by porting games over that take advantage of the hardware, or they'll help destroy it by being abl to do exactly what it can, and making it irrelevent.
     
  10. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    May I ask, exactly where's it going? Because you say it's not moving but magically moving at the same time.

    Yeah the reason for that was mainly because it was handled very badly, it's not necessarily piracy to blame but rather the more extreme measures that were unreasonable placed upon us.

    I don't know about you, but I think I need at least some kind of AA/AF for console ports, look at Mass Effect, in the Consoles you can't turn off Grain, that looked horrible. Not to mention no 2560x1600 Goodness.
     
  11. tron

    tron New Member

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    It is absolutely INCREDIBLE that PC games can sell as well as they do with almost ZERO ADVERTIZING.

    Regarding the topic and the discussion about the future stability of console gaming, imagine how different things would be if the mass public were bombarded with TV adverts for gaming PCs and new PC games, similar to how everyone is told to go and buy a console.

    True, there will always be: console-only gamers; PC-only gamers; and console/PC gamers. However, the proportions would be highly affected by different advertizing pushes.

    Currently, some people are allowing the extremely high sales of console games to put them into a false sense of security regarding the future stability of console gaming.

    Remember, the industry has collapsed before. It can collapse again. Whether it will be a similar collapse or a new form of epic collapse, or even an evolving period, such as consoles becoming PCs.

    As healthy as console gaming may seem now, even Microsoft have shown in the past how 'nervous' they can be regarding the possibility of any number of console gamers being introduced to PC gaming.

    Look at their Games For Windows website. http://www.microsoft.com/games/en-US/index.aspx
    Notice that Microsoft have an XBOX 360 link at the bottom.

    If you look at the XBOX 360 home page, http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/#Deeplink1
    There is no return link for Games For Windows.

    Microsoft may seem to have a conflict of interest. On the one hand, they want to maintain their Games For Windows (weak) 'push' to compete with Apple and promote Windows as the AAA gaming choice for PCs over MACS. However, there is more money for Microsoft in console gaming at present, due to hardware and licensing fees etc. At the same time consoles require extremely high game sales and round-the-clock expensive TV advertizing to be successful. Each generation of AAA console is also becoming more and more expensive for Microsoft and Sony.
     
  12. Warrior24_7

    Warrior24_7 New Member

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    The term "going forward" simply means "into the future" or "how we're going to proceed from now on". As for the console dying, it's not going anywhere, it IS the market right now, and going forward. Like it or not, believe it or not, piracy is a big issue. Blame whom ever you want because it won't matter. The reality is that the developers just picked up their toys and went to play with some other kids. The kids are friendlier, the neighborhood is nicer, and they make a helluva lot more money! Once you lived in a bad neighborhood and move to a good one, you realise it immdiately. Trust me, I know. Btw, Thank you!

    Mass Effect PC, was one of the games that caused a huge DRM backlash along with Spore. Both of them were console games and neither has any of those problems. The PC game is also laggy in certain areas. If you game at that res great, but the majority of gamers don't even have the right monitor to attempt it. Hate to see the frame rate.
     
  13. Warrior24_7

    Warrior24_7 New Member

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    This "dooms day" scenario of an impending console collapse sounds more like wishful thinking on your part than actual reality. This business model that the console makers have is tried, true and tested, unlike the PC business model where the hardware manufacturers have a more vested intrest in selling you parts that you don't need with high prices, minimal incremental changes and rebrands. Basically selling you the same junk, with a different name, at a higher price!! Then you have the developers releasing games that have issues right out of the box! Gamers are tired of it and they've migrated away in droves! With gamers (PC gamers) migrating away, and developers being driven off by hackers, cheaters, and thieves (oh my!), what do you have? What would you expect to have?

    The PC seems to be the wild west of gaming, it seems to have no standards. Buy at own risk with high priced cripple core CPUs, rebranded cards, and glitched games, and sell and your own risk with hackers, cheaters, and thieves (oh my!) awaiting you. The enviroment is hostile for both sides. Then you look over and see over 50 million plus screaming, loyal, console fans in a safe enviroment. Yea, exactly! Then you have the trends and popularity of handheld consoles, laptops, netbooks, cell phones, ect, eating away at the PC because people want mobility and to get away from that damn desk!! The console is strong right now, it's safe, it's not going anywhere for the forseeable future, and is only going to get stronger. In the weakest economy we've had in most of our lifetimes people still gamed, and they overwhelmingly chose a console to do it on. So any wishful, hopeful, pretend, thinking that it will all just *poof* and vanish overnight is absolutely ridiculous!
     
  14. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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  15. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    Hey, what was the point of this?
     
  16. Warrior24_7

    Warrior24_7 New Member

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  17. javaman

    javaman May irritate Eyes

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    A simple no would of done just as well. Its more interesting debating if PC gaming is actually dying which the original article and some post in here tried to give examples of why it isn't.

    @warrior, it was a poor attempt at humour (maybe you don't understand scarcasm) since this topic has been so heavily derailed with fan boism carp that arguing with you is pointless cause your so blind to anyone elses points....especially to ones relating to the main topic. You said handhelds are eatting away at PC market share? How full of **** are you? Im sorry, handhelds and iphone etc are a completely different segment of the market to consols and pc gaming. If I remember correctly quite a few people have had bans/lockdowns unfairly. Easily solved yes. Frustrating...hell ya.

    If you must know the console got knocked into while switched on. In all honestly, i've kicked my PC over, pulled a PS2 off a table, dropped a mega drive down the stairs and all have survived with no damage what so ever. A console will take some abuse, after all kids are a major part of thatmarket, and something like that just shouldn't happen.
     
    Last edited: 22 Dec 2009
  18. Krayzie_B.o.n.e.

    Krayzie_B.o.n.e. New Member

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    Let's See my favorite Directx 10 game Stalker shadow of Chernobyl and Stalker Clear Sky Crysis Crysis Warhead Assassins Creed World in Conflict and Stalker Call of Prypyat in which I'm playing right now has Directx 11 features in it. I may upgrade cards to Directx 11 when Half Life 2 Episode 3 Directx 11 for the PC is released. (you console owners get the Directx 9 version)

    I don't have a directx 11 card but I do have have two XFX HD 4890 and yes they cost more than your console.
    So there is my list of Directx 10 and 11 games so where is your list of Directx 10 or 11 games you have played MR. Console? NO list for you cause consoles are Directx 9 only

    And your so wrong about breaking even on every console sold. Go buy a wall street journal and read how much money Microsoft and Sony have lost in their video game department, these are real numbers they have to report to share holders. Numbers which correlate to loosing money on every PS3 and XBOX360 sold. Now these companies overall turn a profit because of licensing fees and software sales and plus their other products sold. (like i just bought Windows 7 x64 and a Blu-Ray burner.)

    Console on it's it's 5th generation correction Warrior 24/7 6th generation and still lags the PC by light years. Your console is running Directx 9 the PC is geared up for Directx 11. The next form of console/PC released will be Direct x 10 while the PC will be geared up for Directx 12

    Store bought, pre built, Custom built doesn't matter and yes some PC gamers don't upgrade their hardware(they buy new PC) but at least the option and possibility is there unlike a console which comes as is. YES both PC and console have software updates or firmware updates but with PC games you can hit the Tilda key and enter the console and make changes to the software to run smoother on your hardware. But most PC gamers buy some piece of new hardware every 6 months because we want to max out our games for the best possible gaming experience.

    I game at 1920 x 1080p no less than 60 FPS (unless it's Crysis then it's 42) Console 30 FPS max which is good
    I can easily bump my resolution up to 2048 × 1152 Console yeh right! NO WAY only one console can barely do 1080p
    4x or 8x Anti Aliasing and Always 16x Anisotropic filtering in Which a console can't even dream of doing that.

    My PC isn't in the back room it's in my living room and even if it was in the back room thanks to wireless N technology and WiFi and blue tooth technology I could sit in the front room and still game, download movies, music, browse the internet burn movies and cd's, do my taxes, verbally write a letter as my computer types it out, emulate every console ever made except XBOX360 and PS3 (for now) and about a million other things like stream live video to my cell phone from my PC.

    Directx 11 big selling point is EYEFINITY . New bleeding edge technology. Xbox360 Super DVD or whatever = obsolete
    PS3 Blu-Ray ok but can it burn them NO but my PC can.
    Not to mention the console with the most sales is the one for 10 year olds. (what do children say sliding down a sliding board? Wiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!)

    I like consoles but Warrior 24/7 I wouldn't argue with a PC enthusiast about PC versus console until "A GAMERS CONSOLE" is leading in console sales.

    2008 over 200 million PC sold worldwide in 2008

    2008 about 10 million MACS sold worldwide in 2008

    LIfetime for these consoles:
    Wii - 56.14 million
    Xbox 360 - 33.5 million
    PS3 - 27 million
    PS2 - 141.22 million ( I bought 3 of these Damn you Sony)
    DS - 113.48 million
    PSP - 55.96 million

    The Wii + PS3 + Xbox360 total lifetime can't compete with what the PC did in one year.
    Not to mention ATI has sold over 300,000 HD 5000 Directx 11 series video cards since there release in November 2009.
    and it would be more but they can't make them fast enough.
    Look at the numbers my friend, The PC is KING

    Your right all that PC stuff is expensive and so are Ferrari's and Lamborghini's you pay for performance.
    Happy Gaming.

    Don't believe my data? Get on a PC and GOOGLE it! LOL ha ha ha
     
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  19. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    The thing about PCs is that the price is more true, but also the long term investment. You can do so much more with the PC(and add the much needed AA and AF to console ports), not to mention that I haven't seen consoles encode videos and play FLAC, both of which I do quite often.

    I think you're missing the point that PC's not a dying platform as there are many users, not to mention that raw sales numbers aren't very accurate seeing as they never factor in the acutal costs of development and deployment.

    That said, my $800 PC does a hell of a lot more than my PS3 can do.
     
  20. Warrior24_7

    Warrior24_7 New Member

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    First off I built my system too, but now realize that having a "pre-built" one makes more sense...it's cheaper! There is no reason to pay retail and tax on every single item just to say that you built it. it's stupid! I won't be stupid again. I also know that many are not "tech savy", but act and talk like they are! They also don't upgrade either and many, many of these system cannot even play the latest PC with everything turned on. The AA is the first thing gone too. But these are the first people to boast about what the "PC" can do and how it looks better than a console! Thanks for making my point, I've been arguing that forever. It's about what "YOUR" PC can do. You also proved another of my points when you brought up the all the PC sold world wide, the console out games 90% of them withou even trying! So, you have "two" HD 4890s hooked to a TV huh? Gaming at 1080p and bragging about it? Why? No 2500x1600? Thats no better than a $299 PS3 or $199 Xbox 360!!! How much did you play for both of those cards? What a BIG waste of money IF I EVER SAW ONE!! Another thing Mr "tech savy", please tell me what "TV" you're bumping up to 2048x1152 res! I could be wrong, but I didn't think that was possible, so educate me! I know it's the season to be jolly, and I'm LMAO right now, but you're not playing DX10 games either. Those are DX9 games with DX10 "modes", and "features". Where are the stand alone DX games?!! I'll leave DX11 alone because it's too early yet. You say ATI sold 300,000 DX11 cards? So, how many DX11 games are out?!! How many DX10 cards did they sell, millions? No games? That just proves my point as well, you're on a role! It's funny how you would compare Ferrari's and Lamborghini's to PCs. They ARE "expensive" for what they do, which is drive. That could be done ALOT cheaper and just as fun...hmmmm.They'll never live up to their potential since most will remain garage queens and stay limited to highway and city speeds limits, you'll also never get back the money you put in, they're money pits. You could've done the same thing ALOT cheaper, which is speed! Hey, that sounds like two crossfried cards hooked to a TV to me, what do you think?
     
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