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Displays Is IPS all that?

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Pookeyhead, 17 Jul 2010.

  1. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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  2. 13eightyfour

    13eightyfour Formerly Titanium Angel

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  3. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    That LaCie is much higher quality than any monitor you'd find. I'm pretty sure it comes with a calibrator too.

    As for my NEC, I'm pretty sure that you're right about that 25% improvement thing, because there's no way in hell the CCFL is actually 25% bright. And for me, it works out fine. There still is a bit of bleeding but the 1970NX was notorious for it. To be honest, there still is bleeding but much less of it. The A-TW polariser though makes it genius.

    Have you checked out that monitor I keep blabbering about? The NEC LCD2690WUXi? Not the WUXi2, the original one, which I'm sure has the A-TW.
     
  4. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    Errr... ermm... You know what? I was so excited that I'd found a large panel with IPS and A-TW polariser, I completely forgot to check the resolution. I am a pancake.

    You can't buy the WUXi anymore surely. It's just the WUXi2 now. Anyway.. 1900x1200... Now I've seen 2560x1600 on my own desktop.. right here.. even with horrible back light bleed... I can't go back.


    Back to the drawing board.
     
  5. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    Unlucky pook - so close and yet so far.

    I've got some epic dot pitch going on here (my own fetish over pure size, a carry-over from my CRT days) on my 23" - 2048*1152. Biggest letdown is a) TN and b) 16:9... :\

    Definitely not going to a lower res now, so it looks like if I want a decent screen I'm going to have to plunge straight into an S-PVA 30". :(
     
  6. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    Yep! I just don't think IPS is mature enough yet. Sure.. colours remain stable over a wider angle, and you get less gamma shift, but those black level shifts off axis ruin it for me. If all I did was edit photos, I'd calibrate it for brighter room lighting, and have done with it. However, I game on it as well, and I watch DVDs with the lights out. So unless there's a mystery 30" IPS with A-TW that we've all missed, it looks like after many days of pondering.. shouting... pulling may hair out and burning little voodoo dolls shaped like FWP3008s... my new screen will be....

    Ta dah!!

    Eizo SX3031W

    Now the hard bit. Paying for it :jawdrop:

    [edit]

    5 year warranty too! As I keep my screens for about 4 to 5 years, that's useful :)
     
    Last edited: 19 Jul 2010
  7. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    Ah, the thing is, the 2690 can be found used for a decent price...with the Polarizer.

    Of course if you can afford that Eizo, then you're a lucky man. I wish I had that much money..
     
  8. azrael-

    azrael- I'm special...

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    I'm coming late to the party here.

    First of all, I'm sorry for Pook's problems with his Dell 3008WFP (incidentally a 2008 model AFAIK). However, I really don't agree with his assessment, that IPS is inferior to xVA tech. Except for a poorer black levels and contrast it's pretty much vice versa. xVA, on the other hand, is known for colour shift, response time and input lag issues in regard to IPS.

    Granted, this may be irrelevant for someone like Pook, but that doesn't make IPS inferior to xVA as a general rule.

    BTW, I game quite a bit. If I ever have to trade in my CRT at home for a TFT I will certainly look at IPS-based monitors first with xVA-based ones as a close second. Or perhaps OLED, if that would be an option at that time, although OLED has quite some issues of its own. Using a 26" IPS at work and I'm quite happy with it. On the other hand I'm not doing professional graphics editing on it.

    Just my 0.2 <insert favourite currency here>. :)

    PS: Best of luck with that Eizo! Eizo monitors are always priced high, but they're usually also worth it every time.
     
    Last edited: 19 Jul 2010
  9. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    Do you work in a bright environment by any chance? In a brighter room the Dell was awesome, but in dimmer lighting it was unusable if you wanted to edit anything with subtle shadow detail.

    The gamma shift was much less on the S-IPS, granted, but it was over shadowed by the back light bleed off axis. A smaller screen would be fine, but sat a normal 70cm or so away from a desktop monitor of that size, all 4 corners were bright grey with only the middle black. I had to have the room lighting quite bright to render this invisible, or sit so far away my outstretched hands still fell 4ft short of my keyboard... and neither is ideal for image editing ;). Also, when I then dim or switch off the lights to watch a DVD, not only have I got that damned greyness, but my retinas will melt with the brightness.

    You really have to ask why all the really high end monitors still use S-PVA. Also... on the Eizo website, there's a little monitor selector app. You tick the boxes for the use you want, and it shows the range of suitable panels. Select "air traffic control" and watch what happens. All the IPS panels disappear. I think it's an acknowledged fact that large IPS = annoying back light bleed. Fine in a bright environment, but terrible in a dark one. I hardly ever have my light on in here.

    In that video I posted, I had all the lights on (2x 25W CFL lamps), so you can imagine what it was like in the dark. It can have the least colour shift in the world, come free with a packet of cornflakes, and give me a neck massage when I get home, and it would still be useless for me.

    It's a personal thing. Many people on here, and indeed the world over have no problem with it, and are happy to use them, but like manufacturers of extremely high end displays, and air traffic controllers, I'll stick with S-PVA :)

    I think the purpose of this thread was not only to help me select a new screen, but to highlight something that few people talk about: The serious downsides to IPS.
     
  10. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    I've known about S-IPS backlight bleeding for a while, almost all of them have it. Thing is it's still a mile better than TNs, which bleed even more.

    Being cheap I got most of my monitors 2nd hand, and having never really dabbled in S-PVA I'm satisfied with S/H-IPS, with or without the polarizer. However with that said, I have tested an old 204T, which was nice, but had some really bad color shifting.

    I'm sure you'll love the Eizo though, I've seen one of their 20" monitors from the days of 1600x1200...it's a beauty to behold.
     
  11. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    There's a FAQ on the NEC website, and one of the questions is "Why did you stop using the A-TW polariser?" and the answer was "Because it is no longer available from the supplier". This is BS however, as LaCie still use it.

    Why did they stop? If there was a 30" IPS panel with the polariser I'd buy it.


    Fools.

    [edit]

    The HP LP2480zx also uses a A-TW polariser. So that's 2 manufacturers still using it, so why are NEC lying?
     
    Last edited: 20 Jul 2010
  12. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    Maybe they've built up a stockpile of A-TW polarisers and NEC haven't. Either that or NEC can't negotiate a deal with another company for a supply of A-TW's.

    Holy moly that HP is expensive! What's the idea behind such ridiculous cost for a 24" panel?
     
  13. Elledan

    Elledan New Member

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    Probably because people do pay that much for it ;)
     
  14. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead It's big, and it's clever.

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    H-IPS with A-TW
    12 bit programmable LUT
    True 10 bit throughput when using display port and compatible GPU
    RGB LED backlighting
    MASSIVE gamut

    It's just meant to be a killer screen... but You'd be mad to pay that for a 24"
     
  15. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    Yeah HP lost a good market there. I agree with Krikkit's assumption on the lack of stock for the polarizer, or perhaps it's just too damn expensive.

    Still there's some old stock that still uses the polarizer, too bad they didn't include it in their 30" line. Plus I'm pretty sure LaCie is much more geared towards the professional market than NEC, NEC makes it for commercial mostly.
     
  16. Krikkit

    Krikkit All glory to the hypnotoad! Super Moderator

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    Found an interesting article which seems to imply that the LP2485wz has a new kind of panel. p-IPS.
     
  17. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    Well, didn't NEC boast about the AS-IPS they had? And what do these 2 have in common? The A-TW polarizer.

    My guess: It's simply a S/H-IPS panel with the polarizer, they just gave it a new name, for marketing reasons of course.
     
  18. sleepygamer

    sleepygamer More Metal Than Thou

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    Quick question: I'm likely going to come into some money soon (Yaaaaaay!) and am gonna be building a whole new rig. I want a good 24" monitor, and I had my eye on the Dell UltraSharp U2410. I'm gonna be playing games, watching movie, as well as doing a bit of photo and video editing.

    I will eventually (with any luck) move to a Tri-Monitor setup with identical models, so the £4-500 range of the Dell is really the upper limit.

    What would the various denizens of this thread say? I came here because I know that a new thread would just spark another mini argument, so I thought it best to keep it in here. I've used the U2410 before and I did like it. Far better than my little TN Flatron. But after seeing the various debates in this thread, it's made me hesitate.
     
  19. Elton

    Elton Officially a Whisky Nerd

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    Well unless you really really really are anal about the bleeding(which isn't that bad tbh) on H-IPS, you'll do fine with the U2410.

    Pookey's just...well he has high expectations, which are okay for his line of work. As for the rest of us plebians, we can deal with the U2410, it's still a great piece of kit.
     
  20. sleepygamer

    sleepygamer More Metal Than Thou

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    Bleed has never overly bothered me. The main issue I have with my lil TN is the viewing angles, which are terrible. Colours go all manky if you are anything but head on.

    I'm just looking for great colours and image quality, and deeper blacks than I get right now. Plus I like the 16:10 ratio of the U2410. I never got along well with the 1080p ratios.
     

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