Is it okay to feel 'glad' when someone we hate dies?

I'm talking about Fred Phelps:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Phelps

I'm not sure 'glad' is the right word as I'm not smiling or rejoicing, but there's one less hate preacher preaching hate and that I see as a good thing.

Thoughts?

 

No one can help how they feel. As long as you don't go out killing people you don't like it's probably alright

 

Teelzebub, can you make sure he has a warm welcome please?

But seriously: let's honour Rev. Phelps' memory by commemorating how he left the world a better place.

By dying. (Ba-doom zing!)


Harsh? I think not. At least I'm not attending his funeral with big signs saying: FRED PHELPS' DEATH IS A PUNISHMENT FROM GOD. At least I'm not standing at street corners in his neighborhood with signs saying GOD HATES THE PHELPS. His family and he did those things to the grieving families of soldiers who made the ultimate sacrifice so they could continue to exercise their freedom of speech in this manner, to gays, to anybody they felt like. They had no compassion, no mercy, no dignity, no humanity. But I bet that the people they persecuted have more respect and consideration for his death, and his family's grief than they could ever even contemplate having for others. Phelps was, quite literally, the anti-Christ. And he can burn in whatever hell he believed in.

 

We can be sad someone's life was so messed up that they lived it the way they did, while recognising that the world is better off without them in it.

 

Even Satan has standards seriously I'm sure we will find a use for him the toilets get pretty blocked in hell

 

Whoa, dude? Who suddenly made you all reasonable and wise?

 

Don't worry it's just an act, I'll get back to justifying ethnic cleansing and abortions up to 60 months in no time.

 

Phew! You had me worried there for a second!

 

The thing is, as much of a complete raving space cadet the guy was, forcing his ideals on the world in the name of his imaginary friend... It's been argued that he did a world of good for gay rights in the US, it gave rights groups a common enemy to rally against resulting in a more united push for change than may have happened if he'd kept his thoughts to himself...

 

Put it this way when Mugabe goes to hell I'm getting absolutely motherless for a week celebrating

 

It's 120 months, get it right!

I'd like to think Jesus Christ was personally there to meet him at the pearly gates and the first words out of his mouth were "Boy, you F***ed up bad"

 

'And God cast His eyes upon Phelps' mortal soul, and said: "Dude, dafuq?"'

 

Gooooooood... Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you.

 

I think this is a wonderful way to think about Fred Phelps' death. Thanks for this.

 

With all the hate going around I think I will play devils advocate here. I believe this guy had mental issues and because they were religion related nobody dared suggest he had mental issues.

If you look into the history of this guy it is not surprising, a lot of his family died while he was very young and not in pleasent ways either. He was estranged from his family, young, impressionable and vulnerable. society wasn't there for him, but the predators of religious fundamentalism were.

He did attended some very religious eduational establishments who take a very literal view of the bible. Again, nothing is said against these institutions because religion seems to be immune or excempt from criticism.

This was a man who was instrumental in the civil rights movement of the 60's for all the right reasons and before he really went super religious did a lot of good things.

So, whilst I don't like or agree with what he did later in life, take some time to understand the man before condeming him.

Next time anyone posts one of those posters about mental health, stop and think, who is deciding what a mental health issue is, me or am I just agreeing with the presented norms of society.

This man really needed help, nobody could or would give it to him so what we ended up with is the man we are all hating today. Lets not just thow out hate, lets look to see why this happened and are we, as a society, in anyway responsible for the molding of these people.

Just to reiterate, I DO NOT agree with anything this man stood for at the time of his death, but most people who comment about him actually don't know anything about him except from the sensatioanist media reports.

The media are not here to educate you, but to entertain you. If you want to know about something, go and read up on it, but the way people are talking about this with so little knowledge of him outside of maybe a couple of news reports and a documentary focusing on everything bad about the church which never once looked to ask how and why, is disturbing.

Sorry for the rant but these things are getting worse and worse, people are forming such strong opinions from such little information about everything nowadays.

In fact I would go as far as to say that at least 90% of what people think is not because they decided to think that, but because they are just copying what someone else, who they think is more knowledgable but propably isn't, said that appeals to their own vanity.

 

You make good points, although I suspect some people here know about his difficult past. Hitler had one (Godwin's law!); Stalin had a really bad one.

Many people have one, and grow up in a flawed and indifferent society but don't turn into assholes as adults. Of course Phelps had mental health issues (I could tell you which) but again, most people with mental health issues don't behave like assholes. At some point you have to take ownership of, and responsibility for your actions. How else are you going to change?

His civil rights work was a good thing but I'm suspect of his motivations (although his estranged son says he was just exploiting a niche in the market, I think his motivations were more complex, and to do with narcissistic rebellion against authority and power and various other politics) and it doesn't exonerate his bad behaviour. He fought for (what he perceived to be) one oppressed group only: his own. His alignment with Black civil rights was just an expedient one. In his personal narcissistic crusade he persecuted many others. During training we once had this ethical question posed: if someone is a compassionate and competent therapist, but an abuser at home, would you still hire him? Answers on a postcard.

Or put it in Christian terms: if the sinner is unrepentant, could you keep forgiving him?

His gang may not know what they are doing, but at some point they need to learn. They need to get some clear feedback on their behaviour. As I said: I wouldn't be picketing his funeral, or rejoice in his death in front of his family, though they have done those things to others; I would respect their grief, because we lead by example, no? But a bad childhood, mental health problems, being let down by society: they're all really hard and they're an explanation for behaviour and possible grounds for forgiveness, but not an excuse.

tl;dr: we can feel sad that a man felt so messed up that he wasted his life while making others feel as miserable as himself, while acknowledging that the world is better off without him, and whilst acknowledging it's OK to feel glad about that and that you didn't like him. He's people, and so are we.

 

I always find it weird because essentially they are a person, as am I. Surely they have the same impulses, anxieties and loves and fears as me, in their own world somewhere. It is too easy to brand someone as evil. There must be something in there that we recognise.

 

Good points Nexxo.

I believe that just spewing hate does nothing however, a negative from a negative if you will.

I knew Godwin's law would be invoked but I don't believe it is a very good comparison, although there are similarities.

What I am asking is that instead we look at the circumstances around what happened and try to learn from it so it can be avoided in the future, just like historians do with Hitler, Stalin and anyone else you care to name. Or else we can all just jump on the bandwagon of hate spewing, learn nothing, move on and when it happens again say "well, how could we have known, there was nothing that could have been done".

What made this man say and do these things, and the same with other cult leaders? The excuse of "oh, they were just evil" seems very weak and dismissive to me.

Don't misconstrue what I am saying, I don't think any of this justifies what he did, but understanding this would go someway to explaining it.

I believe society has more responsibility than what it is currently showing.

As someone who is anti-leader worship I have to say that this behavior usually leads to bad things and it is this phenomena that should be in question here.

"His gang may not know what they are doing, but at some point they need to learn. They need to get some clear feedback on their behaviour"

As do a lot of religions but as I said they seem to be protected from criticism, I can use logic to dismiss anything someone thinks and argue against them, but when religion is invoked the are a specific set of socially constructed rules in places which say it is rude/disrespectful/in bad taste to do this. Why, and why only for religion. It is absurd.

 

Whose approval are you looking for?

Are you worried if you feel happiness at someone dying that you're a bad person?

If that's how you feel then that's how you feel, I think in general it's how you deal with said feelings that matter. So if you were to then start publicly praising the fact that he's dead, rubbing it in the face of people who loved him etc, then I would consider that bad. But in general being happy someone has died? You can't really help that sometimes.

 

I think being happy about something which did not touch you in anyway is strange, understanding it is a good thing and being agreeable about it are different entirely to being happy.