1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

News Italy bans the 'Microsoft Tax'

Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by Gareth Halfacree, 27 Oct 2014.

  1. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    12,612
    Likes Received:
    1,920
  2. Icy EyeG

    Icy EyeG Controlled by Eyebrow Powers™

    Joined:
    23 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    517
    Likes Received:
    3
    This should be mandatory in the EU.
     
  3. xRBLx

    xRBLx New Member

    Joined:
    14 Aug 2014
    Posts:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hopefully this will get the ball rolling. The amount of money that could be saved by governments on licencing could be staggering if they already have a VLSC in place.
     
  4. saspro

    saspro IT monkey

    Joined:
    23 Apr 2009
    Posts:
    9,282
    Likes Received:
    230
    VL copies of Windows are upgrades and cannot be installed on a bare machine
     
  5. ChaosDefinesOrder

    ChaosDefinesOrder Vapourmodder

    Joined:
    6 Feb 2008
    Posts:
    706
    Likes Received:
    7
    This should not be a rebate on EULA rejection; it should be offered at point of purchase with a very clear "this will not work work without the operating system" disclaimer on selecting the cheaper "no OS" option.

    I've always hated mail-in rebates vs. discount at point of purchase regardless of the circumstances...
     
  6. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,306
    Likes Received:
    322
    Forcing customers to choose an OS would lead to no end of problems, IMHO.

    You would either end up with customers moaning that vendors are being misleading because the advertised price isn't what they actually pay, or you would end up with customers choosing the cheapest option and then moaning how they don't know how to use this Linux thing.

    I'm all for letting people choose what OS a PC comes pre-installed with, but forcing people with possibly no knowledge of PC's or what an OS is, just seem like asking for trouble.
     
  7. Icy EyeG

    Icy EyeG Controlled by Eyebrow Powers™

    Joined:
    23 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    517
    Likes Received:
    3
    Not necessarily, nothing prevents stores from recommending an operating system, and explaining why it is better (and saying that their helpdesk will only support it). However, they should give people an option to opt out if they want to, without charging licenses or loosing warranty.

    Nowadays, at least here in Portugal, some online stores sell some models of Clevo, MSI and Asus laptops without an OS, as well as barebones from various brands, and I never heard a complaint.
    I personally bought a Clevo ultrabook to install Ubuntu, and know a few people that bought MSI and Asus laptops without an OS to either install Windows 7 or Ubuntu.
     
  8. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag New Member

    Joined:
    30 Jul 2010
    Posts:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    10
    I feel like in non-english speaking countries it's a little bit easier to switch OSes, because they don't have as much commercial software to be dependent on.

    But what I don't understand is how exactly they're supposed to be refunded for the OS. For example, a lot of computers from Dell or HP are far cheaper than what they're actually worth, but they're cheaper because of all the adware pre-installed. If you buy one of these computers for super cheap and get a full refund for the windows license, you could potentially re-sell the computer for a profit, assuming you redistribute it without windows.
     
  9. Corky42

    Corky42 Where's walle?

    Joined:
    30 Oct 2012
    Posts:
    9,306
    Likes Received:
    322
    Isn't that what i said :confused: Sorry if i wasn't clear when i said "I'm all for letting people choose what OS a PC comes pre-installed with" that i meant people should have the option to choose what OS, or lack thereof comes pre-installed on their PC.

    Expecting a store to explain or recommend to a customer why one OS is better, or that their helpdesk only supports one particular OS just isn't going to happen. For one whose going to pay for all the extra time it's going to take to explain everything. If a store recommends one OS over another then we are in the same bias situation we currently have.

    You haven't heard a complaint because the option to buy a PC without an OS installed is exactly that, an option.
     
  10. Icy EyeG

    Icy EyeG Controlled by Eyebrow Powers™

    Joined:
    23 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    517
    Likes Received:
    3
    Well, it depends how much the license is worth, and regarding adware, it would be a great opportunity to make companies realize that adware isn't worth it. Sure, it could mean that the average price of laptops/barebones would increase slightly, but at least the competition better for local OEMs, who aren't able to make those kind of deals with Microsoft and adware companies.

    And, even if, for example, Windows with Bing is free, I should have the right to refuse it.

    I'm really sorry, completely missed that bit. :blush: :wallbash:

    Well, I wouldn't mind seeing a big poster saying [Store name] recommends Windows 10, as long as I can refuse it. It would be biased, but not the same situation, because you can't refuse a license nowadays.
     
    Last edited: 27 Oct 2014
  11. DriftCarl

    DriftCarl Member

    Joined:
    2 Nov 2004
    Posts:
    600
    Likes Received:
    12
    I find this a bit odd personally. If my parents purchased a new PC with no OS, they wouldnt have the first clue what to do.
    If a PC Enthusiast bought a PC with no OS then they would know exactly what to do, what boggles my mind is why would any PC Enthusiast buy a PC from HP or DELL, or even Currys/PC World. We all know they are way overprices, and can often get the same or better hardware and build it yourself for almost half the price.

    I have always purchased my PC's as components, there are plenty of places to buy PC's where you can customise everything, and I have seen many places that let you choose the OS.

    If you know nothing about PC's and have never owned one before, then the best thing to do is buy one with a preinstalled OS. It doesnt matter if its Microsoft, Apple, ChromeOS or another flavour of linux. Go into the store, have a play and see what feels user friendly.
     
  12. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

    Joined:
    3 May 2012
    Posts:
    5,163
    Likes Received:
    141
    A Linux enthusiast is not necessarily a hardware enthusiast. Another thing is you may have a license for a different version of windows like a pro or ultimate or just windows 7 that you would prefer to use over what is pre-installed.
     
  13. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Staff Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    4 Dec 2007
    Posts:
    12,612
    Likes Received:
    1,920
    I fear there has been some miscommunication in this thread. As far as I can see, no-one is suggesting that PCs are sold without an operating system as standard; merely that it would be nice to have the option to buy one without an operating system if that's what you want and you know what you're doing. Some vendors already offer this: almost all server hardware can be purchased sans-OS, for example, but the percentage of desktop and laptop makers offering the same is far, far lower.
    I realise that 'half the price' is hyperbole, but if you're building anything except an enthusiast-grade system you'll rarely be able to better the price of a Dell or similar thanks to economies of scale: you're buying one processor, Dell is buying one million processors. Here's an example: a Dell Inspiron 3646 SFF desktop suitable for office use. Celeron J1800, 4GB of RAM, 500GB hard drive, built-in wireless and Bluetooth, slimline optical drive, keyboard and mouse, one year collect-and-return warranty, Windows 8.1, £199 including VAT and delivery.

    Let's look to Ebuyer for component prices. A Biostar mobo and Celeron J1800 is £40, a 4GB DDR3L SODIMM will set you back £31, a 500GB hard drive is £34, a desktop case with crappy PSU will set you back £28, then there's the optical drive for another £16, plus the keyboard and mouse for a tenner, and you'll still need wireless and Bluetooth - say £30 for the PCIe Wi-FI card and a USB Bluetooth dongle for £7. Assuming you're opting for free delivery, that's a whopping £196 - just £3 cheaper than the Dell build.

    So, for £3 more, buying from Dell would give you: guaranteed component compatibility; no time required to put together; a central collect-and-return warranty, compared to individual return-to-base warranties on the components purchased separately; and a valid Windows 8.1 licence.

    I know which I'd choose, even if I was putting Linux on it - and if I could get a refund on the Microsoft Tax, as per the original article, the Dell desktop would be cheaper than building it myself.

    Disclaimer: I just picked the cheapest equivalent components; it may be possible to build the same system cheaper by, for example, paying more for a motherboard with integrated Wi-Fi and/or Bluetooth, but it'll certainly never be half Dell's price.
     
  14. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2010
    Posts:
    5,101
    Likes Received:
    398
    Dell and co don't pay the full price for the Windows license, so it is nothing more than a theoretical exercise where people who can be bothered can get 20 or so mail in rebate if they promise to not use the included Windows (better known as replacing it with a bloatware free version from "insert torrent site of choice").
     
  15. XXAOSICXX

    XXAOSICXX Member

    Joined:
    20 Apr 2011
    Posts:
    755
    Likes Received:
    15
    "Free copy of Windows with every PC" -> no rebate. The value of the OS is zero.

    And people seem to be forgetting that when you buy a PC from Dell or HP directly you have been able to choose "no operating system" for years, and years....and years.

    If you're chump-enough to buy a PC from PC World then you probably SHOULD be using Windows no matter what. The money you'd save from the OEM value of Windows will still be less than the mark up the retailers are adding on to the over-priced PoS they're selling anyway.

    Or maybe I'm just cynical -_-
     
  16. Icy EyeG

    Icy EyeG Controlled by Eyebrow Powers™

    Joined:
    23 Jul 2007
    Posts:
    517
    Likes Received:
    3
    Exactly.

    That's true, for some countries, unfortunately. In Portugal for example, such options almost don't exist.
    However, even if they did, that's not enough. All models should have the no-OS option (except Microsoft Surfaces, and Apple Macs, of course).

    In my case, for example, I wanted to buy an ultrabook. However, no major brand sells it without Windows, so I ended up buying a Clevo W840SU-T. I'd prefer an Asus Zenbook, or a Taichi, but since I don't use Windows I refuse to hand Microsoft money, if I don't use their products.

    Granted this wouldn't have an impact for a lot of people, but for my family it would, since almost all use Linux and my younger cousins are well versed into installing an OS. So far, my relatives have paid the Windows tax, because they don't like Clevos. ;)
     
  17. Jim

    Jim Ineptimodder

    Joined:
    2 Sep 2007
    Posts:
    310
    Likes Received:
    7
    Presumably this will affect Apple as well?
     
  18. theshadow2001

    theshadow2001 [DELETE] means [DELETE]

    Joined:
    3 May 2012
    Posts:
    5,163
    Likes Received:
    141
    I doubt it as they produce a single package. Plus they sell the O/S for very little compared to Microsoft.
     
  19. Anfield

    Anfield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    15 Jan 2010
    Posts:
    5,101
    Likes Received:
    398
    They where not affected when Microsoft was forced to offer an os version without a media player and they where also not affected when Microsoft was forced to shove a browser choice in users faces, so why would they not get away this time?
     
  20. Xir

    Xir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    26 Apr 2006
    Posts:
    5,250
    Likes Received:
    88
    The interesting thing is the differentiation between the two contracts, the I-buy-a-PC contract and the Microsoft-EULA (which isn't valid in Germany anyway)

    Wat would be needed though, is for the OS to priced out individually, they won't refund you a full-fat-standalone-windows (who buys these anyway?) but at max the OEM-Windows price...and I'm not sure that's public.
     

Share This Page