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Keychron Messing Me Around (Distance Selling etc)

Discussion in 'Serious' started by ShakeyJake, 26 Mar 2022.

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  1. ShakeyJake

    ShakeyJake My name is actually 'Jack'.

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    Hi guys,

    My lovely wife bought me a Keychron K4 for my birthday from keychron.uk. They stated that they ship from the UK and that postage will take 5 business days. Well, 13 business days later my wife tried to cancel the order as it's not going to arrive in time. Keychron say that they can't accept a return as the item has already shipped from China.

    So, we're now at a point where we have:
    • No keyboard
    • Massively delayed shipping time that missed my birthday
    • Having to pay import duty, vat etc despite being told it ships from the UK
    • Lose the (frankly preposterous!) £18 that she paid for shipping
    • Pay for shipping back to China

    This all seems a but much and it occurs to me that, seeing as they lied and misrepresented, we should be due a full refund. It's also worth noting that the keyboard is still in China so could presumably be recalled by them before customs. Sadly, Mrs ShakeyJake isn't quite as au fait with this stuff as me, and seeing as it was supposed to be a surprise, I haven't been involved until this morning.

    Keychron are flat out refusing a refund as the item isn't faulty. (Well, it hasn't arrived, but I assume it isn't faulty.) We have raised a paypal claim, so hopefully that will help. Is there anything else that I could be doing to help here? Can I just refuse the customs charges? Would that even be a good idea as they'll have both keyboard and money? Is there a law or regulation that I can quote here? Does anyone want a Keychron K4? Unused and unopened! :idea:

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. fix-the-spade

    fix-the-spade Multimodder

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    Paypal usually (usually) side with the buyer so you have good odds getting money back. If you've pointed out the 'ships from the UK' item is apparently in China and it's missed it's delivery date with no actual delivery date on the horizon you'll probably get the money back. If the whole payment was on Paypal they'll refund the whole amount paid, they don't differentiate goods/shipping/taxes.

    Regards customs fees/delivery charges. In theory once you've been charged those taxes you're supposed to pay them, whether or not you 'accept' the delivery. In practice, once the notice arrives if you contact whoever sent the bill and tell them you haven't ordered anything from China (true, you bought a product listed as in the UK) and have no intention of taking delivery of it, they'll most likely send it back and waive the charges.

    However, UK customs are complete mess right now. I've had several things in the last few months that should have had VAT/fees applied sail through customs apparently without being inspected. You never know, you might get lucky/unlucky with that one.
     
  3. alpha112

    alpha112 Minimodder

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    I found when buying and returning a couple of damaged computer cases to Hungary that even though I returned them, there was pretty much no way to reclaim the VAT. The government makes it possible for large companies and large orders, but with small orders, if it is possible I couldn't find it. I wasted more time calling the courier and HMRC than the amount was worth so I gave up. The money is collected by the courier (sometimes weeks later), but they don't handle refunds, even if they also did the return shipping. Unless the foreign company is UK VAT registered, they also don't handle it.

    Your best option is to wait for it to arrive, then sell it on for as little loss as you can. Unless they have a UK limited company, then you stand a chance.

    There's a chance they'll ship it to a reshipping centre or warehouse, where they handle the charges, then forward it on to you. A few places do that.
     
    LennyRhys likes this.
  4. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Lover of bit-tech

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    All solid advice above. You stand a good chance of being successful getting your money back through PayPal.

    If you still want a K4, go through the keyboard company. Actual UK company, with stock in the UK, have used them twice now and their service is great.
     
    Mr_Mistoffelees likes this.
  5. Mr_Mistoffelees

    Mr_Mistoffelees The Bit-Tech Cat. New Improved Version.

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    I'll second that, The Keyboard Company's service is indeed great.
     
  6. Omnislip

    Omnislip Minimodder

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    How I wish I had read this before buying something from Keychron a few days ago!
     
  7. DeanSUNIAIU

    DeanSUNIAIU Minimodder

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    Call your bank and get them to do a chargeback. You’ll have the money back within a couple of hours.
     
  8. ShakeyJake

    ShakeyJake My name is actually 'Jack'.

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    Thank you all for your help. Currently we're waiting on PayPal arbitration but it's been 28 business days now and still no board. Good show Keychron.
     
  9. ShakeyJake

    ShakeyJake My name is actually 'Jack'.

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    Paypal have found in the seller's favour as the keyboard has now arrived. A month late, with £20 postage. Whatever. Do I have any more options at this point or do I just blast Keychron on social media and try to sell it on?
     
  10. wyx087

    wyx087 Homeworld 3 is happening!!

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    Sorry to point this out, but looking on keychron.uk, their shipping policy says it's shopped from China.
    https://www.keychron.uk/pages/shipping-policy

    The return policy reads very poor.

    A bit late, but one possibility is that you refuse to pay for customs and it should return to them as refused delivery.

    You shouldn't need to pay additional import tax, etailers like Aliexpress should have added the import tax automatically?

    I understand it tarnished your feel toward to product, but you can just use the keyboard? It's quite a nice keyboard.
     
  11. ShakeyJake

    ShakeyJake My name is actually 'Jack'.

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    Thank you for your help. Part of our Paypal claim has been that that but has been added in after the fact. A screenshot on March 26 says otherwise. In fact on a different page it says they ship from Melbourne in the UK midlands. [​IMG]

    We seem to have gotten away without import charges so far, so here's hoping! As for using it, I am! Well, I'm using the other one. See, when Mrs. ShakeyJake realised the first one wasn't coming in time she Amazon'd me one in time for my birthday which I've been using happily for a month now.
     
    wyx087 likes this.
  12. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

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    It may be china but it’s Hong Kong so is classed as the UK for some obscure unknown reason so have they lied? No. But they have been a little shady with the facts.

    When it arrives in the UK, it ships from Melbourne I believe so that would explain that note on location that you have mentioned.

    Keychron ship in 5 days, delivery isn’t 5 days although from point of shipping I have had mine at day 7 which given a weekend isn’t typically a shipping day makes it 5 days. I’ve just gone through adding to basket and had a read and at no point does it say it’ll be with you in 5 days.

    I’ve ordered from there multiple times and haven’t had issues. I’ve even ordered spare parts by emailing them and simply asking. Would corsair or your other typical moulded plastic horse **** keyboard brands do that? What they balls!

    As for customs, never been charged, maybe due to coming via Hong Kong ? Either way it’s been issue free on all occasions for me.

    For me I see this as follows.

    1, Know who you are dealing with before purchase. Not doing so is a you problem, not a them problem.
    2, Moaning is fine but ensure you have a case prior.. you really don’t.
    3, Shafting a company out of funds because you didn’t read when ordering isn’t there fault. Should they charge you additional funds for the additional work your lack of ability in reading has caused? No. That would be unfair. So to ask for a refund after it has shipped and before it has even arrived is unreasonable if your reasoning is that it has shipped from somewhere you hadn’t realised. Since buying from them it has always stated china as location, Wyx087 has pointed this out too.

    Why are people providing advice on how to shaft a business because someone didn’t use their eyes or brain when purchasing? What is wrong with you people!!?

    If PayPal side with you for this I’d be in two minds about linking this thread to PayPal with a complaint as your exploiting their terms of service to defraud a company of funds just because your in a huff about a birthday present.

    Disgusting.
     
  13. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Under no current law, rule, or regulation is Hong Kong considered part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I mean, it was a colony of the British Empire... in 1842. Then we signed a 99-year lease in 1898, followed by the Sino-British Joint Declaration in 1984 agreeing that transfer to Chinese control would take place on the 1st of July 1997. Which it did. And is still in effect.
    As above, you might want to get your facts straight before spitting down from your high horse, there. If they said it ships from the UK, then shipping from Hong Kong is a breach of contract. Simple as that.
     
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  14. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

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    Do I make up the rules? No. Hong Kong is considered Uk when it comes to shipping. I have no idea why that is the case as geographically it isn’t. But they ship from Hong Kong in to china and the in to the UK where the Royal Mail picks up the parcel and ships once it has arrived.

    When you buy a tv from currys it comes from where ever, perhaps Korea. It may land in the UK and then ship from the UK but this is just semantics.

    Placing an order at no point states the item is in the UK and subsequently it ships from there.

    It states the shipping method as EU Yuntrak. This consists of an HK service, An china air service and an UK service which in this case is Royal Mail.

    I have added multiple items to basket and moved to purchase and then repeated, I’ve also checked on each and every order I have placed the last couple of years (two of which were recently in feb and march) alongside terms and conditions and at no point have they ever changed.

    Yes you can find info about UK shipping, about customs etc however all of it is off the purchase page. The purchase page is EU Yuntrak and Always has been since the launch of their original kickstarters.

    Someone hasn’t read something properly, has proceeded to get their knickers in a twist, has come to a forum claiming gospel over ignorance and everyone has jumped at the chance to rub their back.

    All anyone has to do is read the pages and info available to them on purchases as it is their responsibility to do so when using the internet. If they don’t do that and something isn’t what they thought (because not everything is Amazon shock horror) then why should a business who has not at this point done anything wrong have systems used fraudulently against them for the financial gain of the person responsible for that issue in the first place?

    As said, disgusting.
     
  15. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    You're literally making up that rule. Show me a source to back up that claim, post-1997.
     
  16. wolfticket

    wolfticket Downwind from the bloodhounds

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    Last edited: 24 Apr 2022
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  17. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

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    When dealing with shipping containers from multiple forwarders, Hong Kong comes under an UK shipping entity in all partners I have ever dealt with. Perhaps it’s Hong Kong holding on to something because of a desire or need to be seen as separate from the stigmas of china? Who knows.

    Would I buy from Hong Kong? Yes. Would I from China? No.

    Why? Because getting anything sorted with small Chinese companies always seems to be problematic. I don’t have and never have had these with Hong Kong however in all business areas I am sure someone has had these issues just as I’m sure others have been fine with China. My worst experiences? UK companies for the most part and not the small ones but rather the larger ones with the worst offender being currys.

    Back to my point on Keychron, you add any product to basket and the basket mentions that it calculates discounts and shipping at checkout and that it does not (those words are capitalised) include tax or duty as stated on their shipping policy.

    When buying online be diligent. If you are not and you haven’t read something or assumed something else then that is fault of your own and not the company you have bought from.

    Back to my point, stop helping someone defraud a business of funds and goods by blindly assuming what they have said is gospel when it is actually found to be the opposite. Also, do not use tools there to protect both parties to your advantage to again defraud items and funds. It is illegal and wrong!
     
  18. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    I said show me a source, not tell me an anecdote.
    It, as far as I can see, has not been "found to be the opposite."
     
  19. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

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    You have a computer. Go add to basket and use your eyes. Read the policy and then you can come to that same conclusion.

    As for the anecdote, you want me to dig up ex employer documents or emails that I may or may not have laying about to provide “source”?

    Go use eBay, Hong Kong is classed as the UK there still and I’m sure a company of that size wouldn’t be flaunting the rules in such a way.
     
  20. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    No, I want you to cite a source. Should be easy. And yes, I have a computer; I haven't found a single source to back your claims up, and I am unwilling to continue trying when the burden of proof is on you.
    [Citation needed]

    Seriously, Hong Kong is not treated as the UK by eBay. There are sellers who list as despatching from a UK address despite being in Hong Kong, but that's not eBay - that's the unscrupulous seller.

    Again, find me a single page anywhere that states Hong Kong should be treated as part of the UK for shipping purposes.

    EDIT:
    Oh, look: here's eBay listing Hong Kong separately to the UK. I'm shocked. Shocked! Well, not that shocked.

    upload_2022-4-24_13-38-55.png

    upload_2022-4-24_13-39-1.png

    Why would Hong Kong be an option, if eBay treats it as the UK? England's not in the list. Wales isn't in the list. Scotland isn't in the list. Northern Ireland isn't in the list, although it probably should be. But there's Hong Kong. Huh. Almost like it's not treated as part of the UK for shipping purposes.
     
    Last edited: 24 Apr 2022
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