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Keychron Messing Me Around (Distance Selling etc)

Discussion in 'Serious' started by ShakeyJake, 26 Mar 2022.

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  1. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

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    The unscrupulous sellers can do so because it is legal for them to do so. How it is I have no idea but it is. It isn’t right for them to but who’s going to say don’t when legally they can?

    As for the computer bit, I’m referring to Keychrons website that apparently no one has gone through the process on yet. Go through the process, read what’s presented to you and oh my days, would you look at that?! No point what so ever does it say it ships from the UK. Never has done and I doubt it ever will.

    You are going off on your own tangent to avoid the main point here.

    bit-tech member buys something from a website. Doesn’t read it properly, assumes something, throws dummy out of pram when the realisation is that they have messed up and the nThe bit-tech community rallies together to screw over that company of funds and goods via means used to protect both parties in a manner that is fraudulent.

    Decision made, I’m sending the info provided here to PayPal and to Keychron.

    You can deal with the legal fall out for the stupidity.
     
  2. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    You talk about "legal," which means there is a law involved. Here is a handy search engine for every single valid law in the UK from 1267 to the present day. Find me the law.

    You can't. Because there is no law stating that Hong Kong is part of the UK for shipping or any other purpose. Not since 1997, at least.
    You are not only aggressively wrong, but an absolutely awful person to boot. Nice.

    They won't care, by the way. I guarantee it.
     
  3. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

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    There is no law stating that you cannot claim you are based in one territory over another.

    There are plenty of businesses located all over the place registered elsewhere and they are because they can. Legally.

    How am I an awful person?

    I buy goods, I pay my money, I get goods, if they are faulty I exchange or refund as I am legally allowed to do.

    What I do not do is buy goods, not read small print, make up some balls on a forum for sympathy and then expect info on how to commit fraud.

    If that makes me awful then god knows what it makes those who that THAT is ok.

    There’s a place for people like that, it’s called prison.
     
  4. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

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    And as has been mentioned above by a member here, if for any reason you aren’t happy and feel wronged because of what is a mistake or stupidity then wait for the product to arrive and sell it. Buy it from somewhere else that you are happy buying from and don’t buy from the original location again.

    Don’t run to PayPal in a bid to get your own way by shafting a business that hasn’t done anything wrong bar take a little longer to ship than was thought and subsequently upset someone on their birthday. It isn’t right.
     
  5. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    There absolutely is: fraud by false representation, Fraud Act 2006.
    Because you're trying to get another forum member in trouble (literally, "legal fall out [sic]") over something you're absolutely wrong about. And you must know you're wrong, 'cos surely the fun of putting me in my place will have meant you tried and failed to find a single source for your erroneous claims.
    Speaking of laws, you just broke the Defamation Act 2013 by committing an act of libel likely to cause serious harm. Unless, of course, you have evidence of intent to defraud?

    Perhaps OP should instruct some solicitors in this matter? I'd be more than happy to serve as a witness.

    While you're waiting to be served papers, meanwhile, perhaps you'd like to go back through the thread and read what actually happened - which is the claim, as-yet not disproven, that Keychron changed its terms and conditions post-purchase to remove the claim of UK shipping.

    Incidentally, I tried to load an older version of Keychron's terms and conditions via the Internet Archive back when the claim was made. For some reason, the company has actively taken steps to exclude said page from archiving. Weird, right?
     
  6. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

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    Not when it comes to shipping of goods, otherwise you would not be able to drop ship without stating every single location of all goods as you do so, which you do not need to do. Your goods location does not matter.

    There is an active discussion on the forums that has not been nipped in the bud about using PayPal to refund money of goods not yet received all because at this moment in time before the goods have arrived, the company has said no to the request.

    Go back to the company and send the goods back at your own cost once they arrive and forfeit the cost to ship in the first place and I am sure they will be more than happy to because at the end of the day, they didn't place the order, you did which means you were happy to pay that shipping cost as the order has been processed. Why should they have to cover both shipping costs for sending the goods and returning when they have not misrepresented a sale? If the sale was indeed not represented correctly then I agree, they should be held accountable.

    So you are ok with this happening? That is evidence in its self that a member of the team here, employed or otherwise is happy for such discussions to even take place. The thread is still here and the post in question innocent or not is still there with the suggestions in a reply which would ultimately result in that happening rewarding the OP at the expense of the seller by bypassing procedure that they have agreed to with that purchase. Only once you have exhausted your options and have made the suggestion to return the goods yourself can you go through PayPal. Keeping the goods and getting the funds back is fraud intended or not.

    Be my guest. How far do you think they'll get with someone on a forum telling someone else to NOT commit fraud be it intentional or not? If a fraud is to be committed then informing the relevant parties is the right thing to do. Informing the right legal entities is probably the correct course of action here too if you want to start splitting hairs.

    Again, be my guest. Informing a company of anything that would likely cause them harm is not illegal and is morally the right thing to do. The consequences of such being any form of legal fall out should the company wish to press on with this is not my problem, its just a warning of what could come should that route be taken. I also didn't break the law, I stated what could happen as a result. Ironically I could argue you broke accompanying laws you quoted by threatening myself openly on a forum suggesting that the end user looks to have me served. For what? Protecting the interests of two businesses, one who sold the product and one who would unknowingly may get dragged in to a situation where by they would be actively assisting someone gain financially against someone/a business? I would suggest you do what you like at this point. I know I will.

    I have orders placed from last year and other email chains from this year that clearly state that goods don't come from the UK as their is no mention of it and by default, no mention is as clear as stating. Without diving in to any small print or T&Cs the shipping has always been the EU - Yuntrak. All you can do is presume from this point as it is neither stated UK or otherwise. Shady? Quite possibly, they were a start up just a few years ago after all and as with all new businesses are going to get caught out in one area or another that then requires a change to terms or process. GDPR forced that a number of years ago regarding user info and companies to this day are still breaking GDPR unknowingly because they fumbled around last minute when the changes happened and things got missed.

    Keychron UK was pulled from Keychron.com to sell in GBP rather than USD. It is essentially the same site with the same people selling. It is a second site, a later site in fact. Have you ever thought it isn't there because when the site was pulled over it may have perhaps contained the international docs instead? There is no way or proving this but food for thought.

    Can I ask are you able to load every last page and edit ever from bit-tech and see it can you given the mergers, change in ownership, change of servers and so on? I highly doubt that to be the case as failures happen and backups with missing data later get restored so intentional or not there is bound to be the odd snippet of missing data. There are pages that cant be found at Scan or Overclockers too, I assume they must be doing some dodgy crap by default due to this too right? Something as important as an terms and conditions page that has been since amended being removed from the internet is a sensible move and also something they are entitled to do. It helps with avoiding someone finding the page and reading it rather than the subsequent latest page and inadvertently coming to any currently incorrect conclusions. If you ask them nicely I am sure they will provide a copy. What's the date of change for the latest page? My oldest page is from November according to any history I have when searching and I cannot see if there has been a change. The fact it has loaded may mean that I have loaded a later version, who knows. If we presume the order was placed by the OP a fortnight ago then we can assume the page I viewed was prior to this purchase however we cant assume that and we cant assume the page hasn't changed so the argument then falls on to what? Their word against the OPs?

    Follow returns process as per the terms that are present on the order (I assume they were read and a copy is available) and exhaust them. That is all.



    There are too many posts on forums, not just this one, about a company not shipping something on time, not shipping from the UK and so on and how people are adamant it says that it does. I've ordered from Ebuyer before and not got it next day. Its then gone out of stock. Were they shafting me, the evil ebuyer staff? No. They went to pick it, it wasn't there, it was either a stock error or something that had over sold, it sucked to be me as I could have bought elsewhere but it is what it is. DigitalRev got a bad rep for the same issue regarding where the stock is located a number of years ago yet in the shipping policy it clearly stated where it came from so the only fault there would be that you could argue it was hidden. They could argue that part of the T&Cs when purchasing is to read and be aware of the shipping policy but who looks at that? Who is by that logic at fault? Just because a website has .uk at the end doesn't mean that its UK based.

    It isn't nice when you get screwed. If it is partially you to blame then you should take it on the chin rather than expecting someone else to take the brunt of it.

    If you had a site selling goods via drop ship like many do and a customer found out a distributor shipped the goods and not yourself, does that give them the right to kick off about it? No. So long as they receive the goods and the product warranty is not affected and the service offered by that business is not hindered by this it shouldn't make and does not make a difference. They can return it and they may find it is subject to costs such as the cost to return it to the seller. Thats unfortunately how it works.

    You could argue that should there be an issue with a product that returning it could prove costly and this is as a result is unfair due to a claim that the info was hidden or not provided regarding location however as it doesn't say stock is held in a UK warehouse how could you argue that this is unfair?

    There are warehouse types where goods reside that are technically not part of the land they are on (well they are but from a shipping and holding perspective they aren't). They handle the export/import, manufacturing in cases etc and as a result even if in China, do not fall under China trade rules. Perhaps Keychron uses one of these "Bonded" Warehouses and as a result can make a suggestion or claim to location as technically it doesn't have one? We just do not know do we.

    I have had a PCB fail on the Q1. It was my fault, I modded the board and somehow managed to short the PCB, possibly on something internally that I had added in. (likely dynamat)

    Keychron asked for a serial number (which I couldn't provide as its on the box and I don't have the box) however they found the order number and its serial number and were willing to send me a PCB FOC to replace the old one. As I am an honest person I declined this and instead asked if I could purchase the part which they accepted and I had a custom sku and value to add in to the checkout and send my order number to them. I received the PCB 17 days later as I believe they hadn't any freely available in stock but within a week or so shipped one out. Was I told? No. Is that ideal customer service? Not really.. This is not a company pulling dodgy crap for their own benefit though. They did not have to replace something I personally broke and were willing to ship goods to me for free even when made aware of this information.

    These threads wreak of witch hunt and I am sick of seeing them and sick of seeing people "helping" by making suggestions that ultimately lead to fraud. What's worse is the forums in question never seem to step in and say "Please refrain from discussion such things, follow returns procedure and then once all avenues have been exhausted at the supplier, proceed with payment method". Even if this is a gentle reminder or warning before anything nefarious comes in to play.

    Small businesses, sole traders and end users selling goods the world over are being screwed by companies like PayPal just waltzing on in and issuing refunds like this and the end user/recipient still in many cases ends up with the goods. That is not how these services should be used and having them suggested to as I have said before even if this isnt intended is disgusting.
     
  7. Byron C

    Byron C Official Necromancer

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    We don't even need the Wayback Machine to see that the Shipping Policy page has changed.

    Here's what it looks like now:

    [​IMG]

    And here's what it looked like in March, according to Shakey's post here:

    [​IMG]

    The part I've highlighted, where it explicitly says that it ships from China, has clearly been added since Shakey's screenshot was taken.

    The keychron.uk website has:
    • a .uk domain
    • prices listed in GBP
    • a shipping policy that says it'll arrive in 5-10 working days
    • a shipping policy that says it's sent from a warehouse in Melbourne
    Any reasonable person could come to understand that this means it ships from a warehouse in Melbourne, Derbyshire.

    All the stuff about Hong Kong is not only utter crap, it's also utterly irrelevant. There's absolutely nothing in that March screenshot to explicitly state that it's coming from China.

    Even after adding the statement about being shipped from China, the Shipping Policy page still says that it'll come from their warehouse in Melbourne! They surely can't mean Melbourne in Australia, because that makes no sense at all! Why would you send stock from the manufacturing facility in China to a warehouse in Australia and then ship it to customers in the UK from Australia?!

    When I bought my K8 last year I worked out that it was coming from China, nothing explicitly told me that. I was however told 15-20 days for delivery to Europe via Yuntrack. But the crucial distinction is that I didn't buy it from keychron.uk, I bought it from keychron.com and I paid in USD. I was already under the assumption that I was going to be importing a keyboard from outside the UK and that it might take a while to arrive.

    EDIT: The thing I find most amusing in all of this is that this thread is basically a microcosm for discussions on the internet. We've gone from "this company pissed me around with shipping, what can I do about it?" to "this thread is actively condoning, encouraging, and committing fraud" in less than 30 posts. We're well past the point of reductio ad absurdum, all we need is someone to Godwin the thread and we'll be set.

    EDIT EDIT: Took out the stuff about "point us to the fraud, etc, etc" because it's a ridiculous accusation to make in the first place.
     
    Last edited: 24 Apr 2022
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  8. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    It does if you claim they're in the UK when they're not. Again, I've cited my source; you cite yours.
    Am I OK with you defaming a community member? No, I'm not, which is why I'm actively encouraging him to take legal action against you. And believe me, if you've done as you claimed you would he has a case - as a journo, defamation law is something I have to be intimately familiar with.
    Are you asking me if Bit-Tech's website is on the Internet Archive? Yes, it is - you could have checked yourself, you know. There's the site, feel free to browse and see how it looked at any point from April 2001 to today.

    Incidentally, you can do the same for Keychron UK - except for the pages they have actively chosen to exclude, which for some strange reason includes the page they clearly edited which used to claim they shipped from the UK. This isn't excluded by accident: Keychron has literally chosen to exclude that page.

    Now, why do you think that might be? Hmm?
    Oof. When you look in your browser history and load a page, you see it as it is now - not as it was then. Your history is just a collection of automatic bookmarks, nothing more.
    You literally claimed you were going to shop someone, who, if the claim that Keychron edited the shipping details page post-order is true and we have evidence above that it is true, did nothing wrong to PayPal and Keychron in the hope of "legal fall out" and then talked about how they deserved prison.

    Yeah, there's a witchhunt on - and you're Witchfinder General.
     
    Last edited: 24 Apr 2022
  9. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

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    Well if that is the case then there has indeed been a change between the two pages with one assuming to be before and the other after the order was placed. Send the image over with the complaint and see what it gets you once the goods have been delivered in your opinion, and reasonably fairly assumed to be late. (given there is no specifics on delivery with 5-10 being vague and not a guaranteed service).

    If the stock isn't in the UK they should have notified the purchaser as per the wording above and that is where the complaint sits and should be discussed with Keychron before moving to PayPal or similar and if they didn't do so as you have claimed then you are very much well within your rights to complain and request a refund. You at this point could then argue that the cost of return and the cost of delivery are not your responsibility and that you should not be penalised for it but moving straight over to "I emailed them for a refund, they said no as it had already shipped" and then coming to a forum where by the replies are suck it to them, screw them with PayPal etc is not the way forward. The goods will get delivered most likely and then you have both the goods and a refund and have as a result committed a fraud. This isnt something I am okay with however I know people do it all the time and I am sure there are people who frequent these forums who may have done so before.

    Its a "pain in the backside" situation I am sure of that but just wait and do it properly. Dummies out from the second something doesn't go the way that would be expected resulting in discussions of (be it intended or not) defrauding a company just because they've messed up is once again out of order and disgusting. What is with the need for people to go, "I don't like what you've said, I'm doing a charge back on my credit card or paypal or bank" or whatever?

    As for the warehouse of Melbourne Derbyshire, that's the bonded warehouse I believe used by those importing goods from say Hong Kong or where ever based out of or by (I forget) East Midlands Airport. They can and do keep goods there if its DHL as a business I used to deal with did once, they also rented space from DPD and used them for all internal UK trading too from what I recall on sort of a consignment to rented space but that doesn't guarantee stock will be there and based on the new policy they may not be using that warehouse anymore for that purpose. Check with them? Ask the question? If the answers are all versions of fobbing you off then PayPal or what ever payment method is the answer but you aren't at that stage.
     
  10. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    You don't say.

    Now, fancy taking a crack at correcting your libellous statements?
     
  11. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

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    Well you clearly don't get it do you. For someone who is so intimately familiar. I suggest you get in touch with the OP and go for it. Your a site admin and you are actively letting people make these suggestions. I suggest stepping in and reminding them to go through the procedure that they signed up to when purchasing and if it doesnt quite follow the guidelines set out by the government to trade here in the UK, get in touch with the relevant governing bodies prior to jumping feet first in to a position where the outcome is a gain for the OP at the expense of someone or a business also involved.

    As for bit-tech and the info. When it merged with PCPro or what ever it was, info, posts, content etc was lost. There are threads on here about it but I cant be bothered to check, I am sure others remember them to and I am sure they may want to have a hunt for it, they may find it, they may not. Anyway, so much for it all being there, it isn't.



    Also, read the original post by me again. I haven't suggested the OP is looking to commit fraud, they are taking advice that would essentially lead to that. I haven't said their will be legal fall out on their part. It was directed at the bit-tech forum post and the collective messages that lead to the very suggestion of it. Step in as an admin and sort it out rather than letting it happen.

    All Keychron have to do is do a quick google to see what is trending or what marketing/things that can be used as marketing is being posted and they could very well stumble over this without any direction from anyone here. I doubt PayPal would as they're too large to even bother and then you would be doing what exactly? Having someone served for what exactly? For essentially saying that they're in two minds to notify the companies involved and linking to a thread actively making suggestions to impact them financially by illicit means? Give me a break!
     
  12. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Defamation, like I said. There's a lot you're not following here, isn't there?

    And you don't want me to step in as an admin, 'cos the first thing I'd do is ban you. There's a reason I don't get involved in moderating threads where I'm a participant - I leave that up to the moderation team.
     
  13. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

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    Show me the defamation. I think you'll find that its directed at bit-tech for allowing it. You claim to say I'm not following, perhaps you've just missed that in its entirety?

    Anyway, as I have been asked to post here then Ill just copy it on over with a short modification to the posts beginning due to its lack of relevance.


    .....

    No point in arguing over on the thread as it'll simply just become page after page of pointless posts and as you've just said, you don't moderate threads you participate in so until someone else comes along that may choose to, what exactly is the point.

    My general issue with this stands. Ignore Keychron and those involved and subject the situation to ANY company and customer.

    You can moan as much as you like about your goods not coming when you feel they should have. If you are under the impression that something is located in X location and it transpires that it isn't then you have the right to be upset however coming to a forum to complain about this situation before the product has even landed to post about it is one thing. To then see posts from people looking to "assist" by affectively advising the user to do what is essentially a charge back without allowing the company in question to rectify the problem is a deep, dark, never ending hole of "how to screw over" whoever/whatever business and that just isn't on especially given the end result here would be in affect a full refund and the goods sitting with the OP.

    Would I approach those businesses? Yes I would if it continued. Any illicit activity intended to be or not should be reported to those involved and any relevant governing bodies and any recourse from that be it a legal ramification or other as unfair as someone may seem to think it is is just tough. Bit-tech shouldn't be talking about screwing businesses no matter how small the screw is and no matter the intention behind it.

    I've seen small businesses get shafted on Amazon market place because of this little process loop hole or what ever it is that people use and it is damaging to both the sellers business, their staff and all businesses that would stand to gain from continued business if they were to receive enough losses and then close shop.

    If you cant see that as being a problem then I honestly do not know what to say.

    As I have mentioned, people get wronged, people think they get wronged when they haven't been, it isn't pleasant but you knuckle down and deal with it the right way rather than hopping on the path of least resistance. I would have hoped that sort of thing wouldn't be allowed on the forum as I have mentioned numerous times and that a warning to keep things legitimate would have been issued. You don't have to be hostile about it, a small friendly reminder is all that is needed.

    If you want to get another mod to give me the boot then by all means do so. Just because you may not see something wrong in what has been suggested doesn't mean that is isn't wrong.

    Falling off on a wonderfully obtuse direction or perhaps a tangent...
    If someone close to you gets murdered, you'll likely be upset, angry, you'll likely mourn, want answers and so on. You wouldn't however go and find said person that did that wrong and then before the police have had a chance to do something about it and do something stupid. That person may be innocent and then you've screwed over someone for no reason.

    There is as with most things a right way to handle it. Obviously that isn't it and obviously this comparison is miles off the mark but the point still remains. Wait. Exhaust options with seller then proceed down other route if required. What does anyone stand to lose by giving the accused the benefit of doubt before acting outside of their control other than perhaps a little time.
     
  14. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    Ahem, allow me to refresh your memory:
    My emphasis. Now, unless it's been Bit-Tech's birthday recently - in which case, happy birthday Bit-Tech, sorry I missed it, the card must have got lost in the post - you're clearly talking about OP, here, not Bit-Tech. Which means...
    That here you've made your decision to defame OP, based on your complete misunderstanding of the situation and failure to notice that proof was provided as to the terms and conditions having changed post-purchase. If that's not clear enough:
    Here you further defame OP, actively and as has been proven incorrectly accuse them of failing to read the "small print" and of making up "some balls on a forum for sympathy," then claim they "expect info on how to commit fraud" - and, further, that they, not Bit-Tech, deserve prison as a result.

    Happy to have clarified your own posts to you, there. Ask me if you have any further difficulties.

    EDIT:
    Oh, and all that guff about a central clearing warehouse in "Melbourne, Derbyshire"? Nah: Keychron just copied the text from its Australian website and forgot to change it when they were busy hiding the fact they had been lying about their shipping policies.
     
    Last edited: 24 Apr 2022
  15. andrew8200m

    andrew8200m Modder

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    It also states that I would be in two minds to do so. Not that I have decided to go ahead at that point and do exactly that.

    Decision made to send over - it hasn't been sent as yet but lets just say it has for the sake of argument...

    A member has stated that it would be safe to assume that goods are always to be shipped from the UK warehouse in Derbyshire which I would say is fair but not entirely correct as it also states they wont be if goods aren't there but as we have already established a notification of sorts should have been sent over in line with that information from the seller. Then we have you who has assumed that any and every sentence is aimed at the OP and not bit-tech or even other members within this thread or perhaps even others who are guilty of using these loop holes for allowing this to be discussed in the first place you can be singular and a collective. "you" doesn't come with the pretext to clarify as such so all you can do is read what you have and make assumptions on the way.

    As for the sentence, regarding defaming further, that's a reply to you and your post. I've clearly used words of "those" and "people". You can presume it is insinuated to the OP, which it isn't. It is a broad statement on my opinion of people who do that and that is that they should be in prison for it. Now you are really reaching.. Talking about a collective group of people who do such things is one thing. To include the OP or anyone in here in that pool would be another. I haven't done the latter now have I. "They" could quite literally mean anything as can "you" or "your" just as "those" and certainly "people" does. Its easier to use those words than to refer to an exact person or entity especially when at that moment no exact person or entity is being discussed,. I guess its also useful as it broadens the scope of who or where it is directed as there is literally no definitive answer and no way to prove otherwise, not that that was ever the intention but certainly does seem to be the accusation fired towards me.

    My difficulties now sit with your inability to not presume something is directed at any one given person. Perhaps all of this was directed at you? It could very well have been but you know it wasn't just as you could argue everything was directed at the OP but again it wasn't. It was directed at the collective everyone who think it is ok to use a facility to keep you (that's a collective you) protected for a gain. Has that happened here yet? I hope it hasn't and who knows, we may never know.

    So, have you finished accusing me of defaming the OP yet when all you have done is interpret what ever you like and then used it as slander against myself? And for what agenda exactly? How do you benefit? Or is this a case of, you should have nipped it in the bud, didn't, and now you are bullying someone who has called out these posts before they had the chance to lead to anything illegal unless you condone illegal activities? That is after all your prerogative but I would like to think and am reasonably confident that it isn't.

    If you are okay with the outcome here where by the OP could stand to gain all funds back and then the goods still shipped to them then I do not know what to say. Its quite obvious that is not the OPs intention and they haven't been accused of that but if that ends up as the outcome due to the circumstance here, can you explain how that is in any shape or form right? Any "advice" leading to that shouldn't be allowed and as I have mentioned time and time again, its fraud if the intention is there or not. Bit-tech simply shouldn't allow it.

    Your claiming defamation on circumstantial info at best and in doing so are providing none circumstantial evidence of an intent to slander me in the process with such circumstantial arguments in the first place. I think that's a bit dim and this has escalated all because bit-tech didn't do right and ensure that dodgy posts surrounding bypassing a business that has been purchased from to gain funds back before ensuring the avenues available were not exhausted first.
     
  16. Gareth Halfacree

    Gareth Halfacree WIIGII! Lover of bit-tech Administrator Super Moderator Moderator

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    "Decision made." Your words. If you're just going to sit there and lie about a matter of record, what's the point of posting?
    You accused them of exactly that. This ingenue act ain't washing.

    Have you considered just admitting you got the wrong end of the stick and apologising?

    Careful, now, unless you fancy backing that up in a court of law. And if you do, you should be aware that slander is spoken; if it's written down, like you did, it's libel.

    It's super easy to remember, too, 'cos Slander and Spoken begin with the same letter.
     
  17. Byron C

    Byron C Official Necromancer

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    Let's put this in very simple terms.

    A customer buys a product that they have been led to believe is being sent from the UK within an agreed time frame. When the goods fail to arrive on time, the customer tries to cancel the order only to be told this is not possible because its already shipped from China. The company also appears to be refusing a refund because the goods are not faulty. At this point the customer is now understandably pissed off and follows the only recourse available to them: raise a PayPal dispute. (In the end PayPal sided with Keychron because the goods were eventually delivered, albeit late).

    Here's what it all boils down to:
    • Keychron have, whether intentionally or not, misled customers about where the goods are being shipped from
    • Keychron appear to be refusing to refund either the product itself or the shipping costs
    • The customer now has to safely ship the product back to the origin point in China without the guarantee that they will be refunded, or risk taking a loss by trying to sell it
    Aside from the possible breach of UK consumer regulations, which I can't be certain of without seeing the actual communications from Keychron, this is extremely poor customer service. If it were me I'd be livid, and I would be telling everyone I possibly could to avoid Keychron.

    All this stuff about "bonded warehouses" or whether Hong Kong is somehow part of the UK is all totally irrelevant. I shouldn't have to be an expert in global trade & shipping just to buy a keyboard that someone tells me is sat in a UK warehouse.
     
  18. wolfticket

    wolfticket Downwind from the bloodhounds

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  19. The_Crapman

    The_Crapman Don't phone it's just for fun. Lover of bit-tech

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    Whilst this is all very entertaining, I think that will do now.
    [​IMG]
     
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