Damn, too bad... I was pretty sure it was you, though... but yeah... sorry... If you know who this is, please tell me smomething more, I wanna know which things are the trysistors on the circuit maps and what they exactly do, because they' re explained as plain switches there, and I think that' s not right... Plus the one making that, can use some sort of transistor switch, instead of those photon-based ones, compared to what I learned about those... Oh, well... mistakes happen... - off the record: are you ever on AIM? LOL -
I' ve updated the fancontroller circuit plan, finally... and I' m waiting for some other things to come now... currently looking trough the circuits for the RPM counter, and for a thermometer... After that, I' ll do the control divider again, I had to cut it because the new design would take too much space, in the file, there... When I' ve replaced, re-arranged and changed some things again, saving space that way... I meight add the divider there... else it' ll have to be on another, resized image... There you go: http://www.howlingwolfcompany.com/temp/FanController.jpg
Base resistors!!! Also, where is your -5V supply to this IC? You're not going to be able to use your transistors in the way that you have connected them up. If you want to shift a logic signal (you have 5V at the base trying to switch a 12V signal) you must put your transistors on the negative side of the load.
they all are, and the LED's have resistors now, too... I can' t see what else to do... GND is -5 and -12
How can ground be -5V and -12V? Pin 26 needs to be connected to -5V and shouldn't be connected to any other pins like it is at the moment. I'm not sure what you're planning to achieve with the way you have it connected - at the moment you have it connected to ground through two transistors, so it'll be at about 1.2V. (why is it connected to two transistors??) I remember from using one of these ICs many years back that they generally hate being given only half of the supply. It requires a split rail supply (+5V, 0, -5V)so when 5V is present at pin 1 you need -5V present at pin 26 otherwise it's still half powered up. If you're attemtping to switch off the IC with those transistors you need to switch off the +ve supply as well as the -ve supply to the chip The LEDs have resistors, but the base of the transistors don't. I said above what you need to do - you can't switch your 12V fan on with Vbe=5V - it'll only get 5V (the transistor on the far left at the top).
eh? So you mean, that I should separate the -12 and -5V, even though I don' t have a GND, right? Or do you mean something else? From this point, it starts to vague out... According to my tests, which I will do today, I will know if my combined -xV will work... EDIT: The test makes the voltage meter give only half the power as the battery separated... you' re right... back to the design table... or program
Redesign (minor changes) done: http://www.howlingwolfcompany.com/temp/Fancontroller.gif (I know about the numbers, don' t bring them up, this is temporary) EDIT: It does make more sense now, thanks... lol But um... transistors switch from +0.06V or something, I think... dunno... I thought I read that somewhere... I' ll add the resistors later, just gonna watch it all as a whole, some more, maybe I' ll see more mistakes... I really need more theoretical stuff, practical is impossible, because I am short on funds... remember, though, that I' ve never had anything close to electronical education... and all I do but this, is program in JavaScript, for IE (I' m building a JS/VBS based OS) --- EDIT --- the book I' ve got on electrical components, explains next (small part of the text): battery: 9V resistor R1: 820 kOhm battery -> R1 -> transistor base calculating the base amps of the base for the transistor: ( 9V lowered by 0.6V )=9.4V / 820 kOhm = 1µA How can 9V, lowered by 0.6 become 9.4?!? I really don' t get that... - and besides that, how can a transistor, that lowers power by 0.6V amplify? I don' t get that either... all I get is mathmatics and formulas, and I can' t even get the slighest of things like those volt is resistance / volt or whatever that is... I' m really confused... all I wanted is to know how those things WORK... not what they do... I' ll learn the science later, first know how to handle the objects...
Okay, enough with the panic... are there any programmers among you? here' s how I solved my transistor problem (keeping NPN and PNP apart, without breaking your head over them)... it is JavaScript, but quite understandable... and if anything can help me more, then it' s this way of thinking, because it became a secondary thought process for me... function NPN() { E = B >= 0.6 ? ( C - 0.6 ) : null; } function PNP() { E = B >= 0.6 ? null : ( C - 0.6 ); } now if anyone can read this, edit it and give me a sample of how they really work, and what they actually really do... I' d be really really happy... this is the easiest way of communication if it' s about any digital stuff/math for me...
Well you've done something even more wierd now. Pin 21 is ground, yet you have it connected to your display? I have no idea what you're using -12V for - that will exceed the IC's ratings. The ICL7107 needs -5V, 0V and +5V. You don't want transistors on your supply lines or you'll be dropping your voltage to the IC. You want 12V for your fans, but you need to lower this voltage to work with your 200mV scale if you want to get a voltage reading. Pin 26 is the only part in the whole circuit that should have -5V. Why are you connecting this to all those LEDs and transistors? You probably want ground (0V) at those points. Again, resistors on your bases are needed. Read the sticky at the top of the electronics forum for help with transistors. At the moment you have your transistor as a voltage follower, so the max voltage you'll get to your fan is 4.4V (5V-0.6V). If you want to switch a fan on with a 5V signal, the fan has to be permanently connected to 12V, and the ground from the fan connects to the collector. Emitter should be connected to ground.
I have no idea if you can follow the lines, but the connections are all correct, on exception of the LED-to-GND's ... and if I use a battery, why can I connect the LED to + and - then? --- EDIT --- Maybe you didn' t find it in the text, but there is NO ground... the panels connect all to another panel and no grounding... It' s for furniture, not for computers... it controls parts of computers trough the main separator unit... where are also a dashboard and a light switch attached to... --- From this point, nothing of help seems to do me good... The FAN is connected to the 12V supply permanently... I would' ve made a resistor for it that variates on power flow, but I didn' t find anything alike, so I just added a var resistor directly to the 12V... I' m not even measuring 200mV... but 19.99V on the indicator, so that' s correct... And for the pion 21, it said (in the manufacturer' s ICL7107 sheet) that it can be either GND or DP... Base resistors are on the way, too... I haven' t got much to change, just some details, and other things I don' t get... Comparing texts, everything seems to cross over eachother... first you can' t connect a NPN to GND, then you can' t do the same to + xV... I' m not understanding any of it anymore, my original idea is totally ruined... I have no idea what follows now, more problems with the PIC speed counter and Thermometer, I guess... EDIT: Here' s the updated circuit http://www.howlingwolfcompany.com/temp/Fancontroller.gif
I think the following may be where your errors about the -5V, 0V, +5V supply are coming from: The datasheet says pin 21 can be ground or the decimal point because the datasheet is for both the LED and LCD versions of the IC (7106 and 7107). The LED version you are using has to have pin 21 connected to ground, and the LCD version uses pin 21 for the decimal point. So you have to have a ground connection in your schematic since you have an LED display. The LED version (7107) cannot even run from a battery without an external voltage reference. The internal voltage reference for A/D conversion requires a split rail supply. No ground = no worky. Only the 7106 IC is suitable for battery operation since you're going to be drawing as much as 230mA from your supply if all segments are lit on an LED display, which is not much of a battery life! At the moment, pin 26 is connected to -5V through two transistors. This should not be done. It needs -5V all the time that pin 1 has 5V. Base resistors: Just for your information, your LEDs and transistors cannot all share the same resistor at the top. Each LED needs a resistor, and each transistor needs a resistor. But the three transistors on the right are fine. Can you explain what +12V and the +FAN connections are for, and why there is a transistor with a variable resistor in it's path? This schematic from the datasheet is for 200mV FSD. This is a 200mV FSD chip. This means it measures up to 200mV. If your input from whatever you're connecting this A/D converter to is as high as 20V, you need to scale this input down by a factor 10. If you have 20V connected to pin 31 through that resistor you'll blow up the IC. Finally, you have a -12V supply present. What is this for? You have it connected to pins 30, 32 and 35. This will instantly destroy the IC. -12V is beyond it's ratings. bang.
I just follow the instructions... It says +V in and -V in... that' s all it says, it' s not referring to what voltage... just that it measures them... Or, your point varies a lot from the original idea, or the manufacturer is just too lazy to state this destructive warning... I also can' t figure how one resistor can' t replace similar-valued ones, and link the same path as the original 4-resistor path would be... It' s not logical that you can' t line them up, like that... For the transistor in the VarRes path, the VarRes is the FanSpeed controller, and the transistor is linked to the "Fan on/off" switch... that' s not a push button, but a switch... It' s pushbutton sized, so else I can' t keep them apart... I' ve got about 35 pushbuttons, switches and knobs in total and 3 jacks... and for almost each there' s a LED... Maybe it' ll all be clear if I shew the front-design here... Front design of the project: http://www.howlingwolfcompany.com/temp/SwitchPanel.gif Hope it works better... my brain' s cooled down now, too, so I' m open for more... ^-^
The latest datasheet for the ICL 7107 is here. One resistor cannot replace similar valued ones for the following reasons: Your LEDs will clamp the voltage across them to 2.2V. This means any point past that resistor will be 2.2V. The current will be shared between everything after the resistor. If you calculate your resistor to limit the current to 20mA for one LED, adding another LED after the resistor will mean each LED gets 10mA (assuming they're matched LEDs!), and be dimmer. 20 or 10mA could be enough to damage the base of the transistor (although unlikely), depending on the type, or with low gain transistors will limit the current through the transistor. (Ice) You may find high loads through the transistor will cause your LEDs to become very dim with the way everything is connected up now. If your variable resistor is used to alter the speed of the fan, and the +FAN connects to the red wire of the fan, you're not going to get more than 1.6V to the fan with those LEDs clamping the base voltage to 2.2V! You really need your transistor to act as a switch, in which case you need the fans red wire permanently connected to 12V through the variable resistor. The black wire of the fan should then be connected to the collector of the transistor, and the emitter connected to ground. That way you can turn the fan on with any base voltage above 0.7V. And finally, that -12V shouldn't be linked to 30, 32 and 35. If you get rid of the -12V on those pins, pins 40 to 27 will be correct. Pin 21 = ground. Pin 26 = -5V. Pin 1 = +5V. If you want to turn off the IC (I think that's what you're trying to do with the transistors at the top connected to -5V) then you'll have to come up with another method. Easiest method is probably just to disconnect the commons from the 7-seg displays! The IC alone draws minimal power.
I have the exact same sheet... just to tell you... negative is connected to those pins, so I guess that' s right... + FAN goes to the fan, I guess there' s no other way then making that to the red wire... the black one will be on - 12V, so then the in pins are correct... I guess... The fan controller circuit (the little loop in and back out) is basicly "copied" from the fan, what the fan gets, the meter gets... so I think that' s the right way... It really isn' t easy to overview something this small, connected to such a large scale... But look at it positive... if you would' ve had to overview the full circuit, you' d need a huge monitor and a ruler, lol... In DesignWorks, you click a line, and it lights up yellow, so you can trace it easy... but on your monitor, that' s not that easy... Anyway, I' ll change that LED/Transistor thing, it makes more sense to keep it all apart, even when it' s a shared line... it' ll just make my design a bit harder to draw, but easier to make on the plate/board... I' m not going to argue about pin 21 anymore, I' ll test it, and if it' s not working, I' ll add it to the voltage out (-5V/0V) For the rest, I don' t see another problem, so soon it' ll be a struggle adding the RPM meter/counter... yay for us (and 'specially you guys, because you really help)
Which diagram are you looking at in the datasheet? The one which applies to you is at the very bottom of page 4. There are lots of schematics in the datasheet, but most of them only apply to the ICL7106 which is no good for you. Make sure you only look at the ones for the ICL7107 as the ICs are quite different internally. And notice everywhere in the datasheet it says "Full scale analog input voltage of 2V" - it can't measure a voltage higher than 2V, Just like most other panel meters. If you have the black wire of the fan connected to -12V, your readings are going to be inverted - i.e. when you have the fan on full, you'll read 12V (or 0V if it's a 12V fan), and when it's on minimum you'll get -12V.
ive pretty much given up trying to track your schematic (its way to 'complicated' for my simple little mind) but i will offer one last word of advice: if a chip is asking for a voltage, give it the voltage that its asking for, especially if you’ve never worked with ICs before! More importantly, if a more experienced engineer is sharing advice about a chip that he has worked with, your pretty much setting your self up for failure if you ignore him. If your feeling overconfident, check out the links in his sig. I’m not “sticking up” for him or “taking sides” – it really is in your best interest to listen. i had to learn this the hard way, maybe you do too. and remember, IC’s only have a little bit of the magical smoke, and once you let it out, they don’t work anymore. it might be a now, but it will save you later. Besides, its not really much of an argument when he is right and you are not
LOL, thanks shadow... but it said so in one of the circuits, I thought he never used them, either... And yes, I did use the ICL7107 schematics... I have a full list of 7 schematics applying to the ICL7107 chip... and also the ICL7107R, which is just the other way' s workaround... Anyway, here' s the updated circuit, hope that makes more sense... I' ve removed that fan switch-transistor, and replaced it with an ordinary on-off switch, linked to the main powering switch... as for the voltages, I' ve got a lot of research to do, but the thing will not overload... I just don' t know what to do where, and which resistor to put on what place... Eventually, I' ll learn that, and then build it when the schematic is complete, and near-perfect... and maybe by that time I' ll have a v 2.0 lol... Anyway, here you go: http://www.howlingwolfcompany.com/temp/Fancontroller.gif EDIT: I' m thinking of separating the power and the in/outs... I' m going to add a cable, with 3-pins or maybe 5, which carries the voltage/gnds... Well, two voltages (5 and 12) and a ground... maybe two negatives, too --- EDIT --- That means I' ve gotta start from begin all over again, but that' s not a thing to worry about, in a project... I still have this program to do it with, if it' d be on paper, that' d break my skull, lol... ---
