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Legal help re Piercings

Discussion in 'General' started by Pha3dr0n, 7 Sep 2004.

  1. Pha3dr0n

    Pha3dr0n Where's my Valium?

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    Ok folks - the **** is hitting the fan. I work for o2, and their retail dress policy states no facial piercings, and a max of 2 rings per ear. It does however state that religious, ethnic, or medical reasons will be considered as regards allowing these. My left ear is pierced 10 times, my right 4 times, and my eyebrow twice.

    I will be calling my union tomorrow regarding the matter, but does anybody know of any religion that expressly insists on piercings? Or any other way I can deal with the matter?

    I dont think the church of body modification will cut it.

    Cheers,

    Pha3dr0n
     
  2. Loz

    Loz Blah Blah

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    You shouldn't need a large, well established religion. Just say it's your personal belief and I doubt they'd be willing to go to court over it.
    Edit: I'm not an expert and take no responsibility for actions that result from my advice :D
     
  3. penski

    penski BodMod

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    There is no recourse. Either you remove them or you lose your job...unfortunately, thats the way it goes.

    The COBM was a good idea that went to hell because people were greedy. There is no legal backing for you.

    You could argue that it is part of your personal belief structure that you are free to physically represent yourself in accordance with your inner image...You could also pull in a medical slant to it - that you only feel 'right' with your piercings...You'd probably have to get a letter from a medical professional stating such though.

    *n
     
  4. Spiral Architect

    Spiral Architect Cooked on Phonics

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    You're screwed by the sounds of it.
     
  5. penski

    penski BodMod

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    Either you remove them and abide by their rules, you barter with them and ask if you would be allowed to wear retainers or you find a job where you can keep them.

    *n
     
  6. VadimtheConqueror

    VadimtheConqueror I love the little tacos...

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    you could try logic.
    enquire as to what the difference between a religious belief and a personal choice is, seeing as that's what a religion is. it's discrimination to allow one group of people something and not allow that same privilage to others, reguardless of the reason.
     
  7. Grump

    Grump The Mad Modder

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    And the problem with removing your piercings during work arrrrrrre?????? I don't understand. The company you work for has an idea of the image they wish to convey to their customers and staff. If you have a better idea, put it in the suggestion box. In the mean time, comply with the rules or find a new job.

    They are more lenient than I am with my employees. ONE piercing for each ear and no other visible piercings allowed (tongue piercings are visible when you talk, so forget them too). No visible tattoos. No clothing that depicts any religious, political, sexual, pharmaceutical, alcoholic, philosophical or musical icon or word(s). Hair must be neat. No makeup, no shorts, no sleeveless shirts and no torn or tattered clothing.

    My employees go into people's homes -- mostly old people. I want them to feel safe -- physically AND mentally. You scare my customer, you're out of a job. Not one single challenge to my rules has stood up in mediation or court.

    You can start your own business, work for someone else or you can live 8 hours a day on someone else's terms.

    Grump
     
  8. penski

    penski BodMod

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    Or you can do what I do; talk to your employers and make sure they know that piercings have no relevance to your abilities both in a professional and customer-facing role.

    His job doesn't involve going into old peoples homes so your post was a tad unnecessary, Grump. He deals with the general public as a whole. A group of people who are widely exposed to both piercings and tattoos on an ever-increasing basis.

    Also, I beg to differ on the tongue issue. If my parents can not notice that my tongue was pierced for over a year (I was living with them at the time) then surely, with proper placement and jewelery, they can be counted as a non-visible piercing?

    Like I said earlier, your best bet is to talk to your line or store manager and explain that your piercings are very important to you personally and that you would like to keep them...Would he/she let you wear retainers?

    Above all else, your attitude is what is important - if you convey yourself in the right light and give the best impression that you can, remaining professional at all times, then people will remember you. In my old job, I was exposed very often to very high profile customers on very large deals (both in monetary terms and in terms of the amount of work required) and I kept my piercings in at all times. Several times after customer meetings with the field team and the desk team, the customer commented on me as 'the guy with the piercings' and their comments were never less than favourable. If you look slightly different yet present yourself in an impeccable manner then you will be remembered far more than the good employee who seems the same as the rest of them.

    *n
     
  9. iggy

    iggy Minimodder

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  10. Malvolio

    Malvolio .

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    If you're looking for a religion, I recomend the "Religion of the Lazy *******." Yes, it is (well, was) a real religion, and it had like 200 odd "offical" members who actualy wern't lazy enough not to send in the application forum. But they we're at one point a real religion (well, as real as they come, look at christianity after all :rolleyes: ). If you want more info on it I can get it for you (yeah, I know the guy who started, ran, and owned it, he just got too lazy to keep the site up-to-date.... kind of ironic in a way)
     
  11. penski

    penski BodMod

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    It isn't a 'real' religion insofar as it is not a legally recognised religion.

    If I recall correctly, even something as well known and popular as Rastafarianism is not a legally recognised religion.

    Out of luck, Malfoleo.

    *n
     
  12. Malvolio

    Malvolio .

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    Eh, but how would they know? And anyways, I think it would be funny as hell to see some stupid chav go up on the stand, covered in peircings, and try and defend himself saying that he believed in the "Religion of the Lazy *******" :hehe: :lol:
     
  13. fatty

    fatty Minimodder

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    Did the rule come in before or after you started working for them if it was an existing rule and you had all your peircings and still chose to take the job then no leg to stand on if they bought the rule in after you started and you had your peircings then you should be able to wrangle a deal with them as for medical reasons well your holes will close up and cause you excruciating pain getting them re opened again and will also leave you even more disfigured causing you mental pain and suffering which will lead to depression which means you will have to take months off work for mental health reasons all this will have to be paid for by them for bullying you and causing you all the mental anguish leaving you mentaly scared for life :)
     
  14. Silence

    Silence What's a Dremel?

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    I used to work for a high street branch of Dixons (but i was trying to bring it down from within!), and after being at university for 3 months i returned for the christmas season with a rather fetching lip piercing. I had asked before hand if it was ok to have a small stud in it as opposed to a ring, and was flatly refused, and was told that it was against the company dress code.

    I was a tad miffed, and decided to contact head office so that i could acquire a copy of this dress code, which they duely sent out to me. As i suspected, there was no mention of facial piercings in the dress code, and so i approached my manager again with a polite request. I pointed out that there was nothing in the dress code that prohibited facial piercings, and that i had seen staff of various other respectable high street stores with facial piercings. We came to an amicable agreement, and i was allowed to wear a small lip stud in during work :)

    My current job is a different matter completely. I work for the NHS, which has an 'equal opportunities' policy, meaning they are quite happy with me turning up to work with bright blue dreadlocks, and a couple of lip piercings (lip & medusa). Ultimately, they dont care what you look like, so long as you dress smart and work hard :D

    Different employers will have different policies, but penksi is completely right, being professional and polite is the best way to behave at work, especially if you have piercings ;)
     
  15. penski

    penski BodMod

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    In my current role I have to wear retainers in my tongue and lip (any idea how hard it is to find a 3.2mm clear retainer for a lip piercing?) but I am allowed to keep my (stretched) lobe piercings in. The rest of my facial piercings (septum and upper labial frenulum) aren't visable anyway.

    If you do have piercings, please try to be as most polite and professional as you possibly can whilst at work. If we all do it then piercings will become more acceptable as a part of the workplace.

    *n
     
  16. Grump

    Grump The Mad Modder

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    I have no way of knowing his job, except that he is in retail. I tried to research it by clicking the "I hate o2" link in his sig, but, like so many sigs, it was dead. So, it may be unnecessary to you, but certainly not for me and anyone else who may not know what the heck o2 is or what his job entails.

    Unless you are dealing with a small business employer like me. I have absolutely no sympathy for someone whose desire to be "fashionable" outweighs my sense of business attire.

    I have no doubt my customers are exposed to this sort of personal display in movies and on TV, and to a very limited amount locally (small town), but that does not mean they feel comfortable around people who have them.

    If I can see it, it's visible. I don't inspect the open mouths of my potential employees. Most of the people I know with pierced tongues, play with the things incessantly. The little ball darts in and out of their mouth and it does not look professional at all. If, however, you can keep it in your mouth and I never see it, I wouldn't have anything to say about it. I have an employee who has a huge tat on his calf. It doesn't show at work, so I could care less.

    And someone else mentioned something about holes closing up. I have my left ear lobe pierced. I wear an earing very seldom, maybe once every few weeks. It hasn't closed up in almost 10 years. I doubt a hole will close in only 8 or 10 hours.

    If an employee cannot put his/her personal adornments away for 8 or 10 hours a day, they can work someplace else. This idea that a person has the right to wear what some people consider objectionable accessories when the goal of most businesses is to satisfy the customer, is ridiculous. I'm sure, if I had a large business with many employees, I would be sued. It's still bullsh**. It ain't high school anymore, it's the real world of business. Find a business that thinks it's cool -- they exist and that's where you should work.

    Grump
     
  17. :: kna ::

    :: kna :: POCOYO! Moderator

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    Yes and no.. Personally I find wearing 'office wear' in non-customer facing scenarios completely pointless and people should be judged on their abilty to work and not how they present themselves. Even as a Manager myself, I absolutely hate being forced to wear a shirt, tie, shoes and trousers and could present myself perfectly acceptably in casual wear.

    My base argument though, in *any* business is that if a company allows earrings or nose studs on women, they should allow facial piercings on men, it's as simple as that. If not, then the employer should be at least sympathetic to helping to keep them discreet.

    Yes it's the world of business, but times are changing from the stuffy, old boy network they used to be and businesses need to realise that there is a plethora of productive workers out there that they're missing out on because of their narrow minded views on something as irrelevant as 'dress code'.
     
  18. penski

    penski BodMod

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    You think this is about fashion?

    Oh dear...

    *n

    PS: I have dealt with companies ranging from 5 guys with a relaxed attitude working in a garage to board-level customer contacts in multinational bluechips employing many, many thousands of people. I present myself in the same manner no matter what the contact is and I have never had a negative reaction. I maintain that your presentation and attitude will shine through all but the most blinkered world views.
     
  19. Hex

    Hex Paul?! Super Moderator

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    I'm not going to get too into this, but I will just point out that this is very outdated. I have been working for a UK Government Agency for the past 8 years. I have had a variety of hair colours throughout that time and I've come in to work in jeans & t-shirt for most of those days. As long as I'm clean & tidy, no-one cares as I have a reputation for being exceptional at my job - go me!

    In under 3 weeks I will be working for IBM and I would class them as a fairly large employer (!)... they are happy with me to keep the hair & casual clothes as they are. Also, it isn't fashion. It's how I like my hair. I feel comfortable in jeans & t-shirts. I would never work 14 hour days in a suit, but in casual clothes it's not as bad.

    --

    Back to the original question. It really does boil down to whether you were already working there when they introduced this requirement.
     
  20. malcs

    malcs oops! i put a hole in the ***** :(

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    imo declare yourself as jedi, thats a religion, and they have all kinds of wierd **** on their bodies
     

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