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Local Election night.

Discussion in 'Serious' started by Zinfandel, 3 May 2012.

  1. mucgoo

    mucgoo Well-Known Member

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    I was refuting you indictment of personality cults surrounding leaders rather than discussing Johnson's record. Poorly worded, sorry. My point was that uncharismatic leaders tend to be below average.

    He would of lost if Livingstone was charismatic and he was not; particularly given the narrow margin.
    But is there anything wrong with that difference playing a role in deciding who is the better candidate given charisma is a quality required of a leader.

    What makes Johnson the much worse leader than Livingstone and so only elected due to his charisma in your opinion.
     
  2. Dwarfer

    Dwarfer New Member

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    Distanced himself from Cameron and the pathetic Lid Dem pact.
     
  3. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    Well, at least the guy has an opinion, I'll give you that.

    I'm not saying Livingstone would be any better; I just don't think he would be any worse.
     
  4. Carrie

    Carrie Well-Known Member

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    Fortunately we, as in Londoners, won't have to find out that he would be worse :D

    He spent the last month or two promising anything and everything to most sectors of the capital that we cannot afford and thank God we didn't go for it.

    He may have selectively made it easier for a few groups for a year or two, after all they never deliver everything they promise, but then we'd be paying for his bribes for the next 5+ years after that. And he would have just walked away at the end of the four year term with a backward glance, a smug grin, just like this:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: 5 May 2012
  5. Combinho

    Combinho Ten kinds of awesome

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    I can't help but feel that Labour shot themselves in the foot with Ken. Whilst I would choose Labour over any of the other main parties an a heartbeat, I could never vote for ken. He just seems a corrupt, greedy unlikeable t**t. Much as I hate the Tories, I'd still go for Boris over him. To me ken seems like a caricature of all the worst things about politicians.
     
  6. Dwarfer

    Dwarfer New Member

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    WOW - You'd still vote Labour despite all the things they've done BAD in their time especially they are to blame for the economic mess we are in today.
     
  7. Carrie

    Carrie Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't vote labour but they are not entirely to blame for the economic mess we're in. Contributory, yes, as many individuals and institutions are, but to blame alone, no.
     
  8. penryn 2 hertz

    penryn 2 hertz I'm not a science fiction writer...

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    It dose not matter what party your with there all corrupt. I just vote for the party that dose the least amount of damage and hope for the best...Oliver Cromwell would be turning in his grave if new that state that England is in today.
     
  9. Bogomip

    Bogomip ... Yo Momma

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    Yeah, everybody under 16 getting free education, public healthcare that is actually good, street cleaning, looking after our elderly, helping people who need help, excellent transport infrastructure, sewage, ...

    What a bad nation we are... :)

    (end sarcasm if you didnt get that)

    Its not all good ill admit, but some countries have dire civil rights, human rights records, education, healthcare etc. In South Africa the teaching union for example is so powerful many teachers take a day off when the sales in shops start and there is nothing the government can do about it. In some countries teaching barely exists as a profession.

    Im also not saying we are the best - but to say our country is going down the drain is ridiculous, and to say its because of the foreigners is even more ridiculous, though illegal immigration does need to be cut I don't believe legal immigration should if its for a good reason.
     
  10. Dwarfer

    Dwarfer New Member

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    How can you not blame labour for the mess we are in after their spending regime since they were in power. Surely anyone with the right mind-set will realise you cannot keep going on spending and not save for a rainy day. They are 100% to blame!
    This has got sweet **** all to do with the UK so why mention it? We have our own problems so stop worrying about other countries for once.
     
  11. Nexxo

    Nexxo Stopped treating this country as if it was his own

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    What Bogopimp is saying is that your view that the UK is "going down the drain" is subjective. What are you comparing it to? To how the UK used to be? To how other countries are? To some abstract utopian ideal?
     
  12. Carrie

    Carrie Well-Known Member

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    Read my post. The Labour Government of the day are contributory to "the mess" we're in but are not solely accountable for it.

    The mind set of the noughties permiated throughout society, in particular the western world, whereby the boom in "wealth creation" (in the main, paper wealth) would go on for "the foreseeable future". It was a blind attitude adopted by individuals, corporations and governments alike, who extended themselves beyond their capabilities to account for in bad times in conjunction with misrepresentation - such as that by the Greek government, financial institutions etc.

    Admittedly Labour artificially reduced unemployment levels during that time by over expansion of the civil service, beyond sustainable levels based on tax receipts, but you could argue that a reasonable percentage of those people would otherwise have been unemployed for nearly a decade.

    So no Labour are not to blame for everything; they have a contributory role in it.
     
    Last edited: 6 May 2012
  13. Archtronics

    Archtronics Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the above ^ It may not have helped the economy but it helped families earn a decent wage for at least 10 years. (my family is included in this)

    I don't vote, I have no interest in voting, and I will continue to be until I see a politician actually answer a question.

    You complain about immigration in my experience most work harder, are more reliable and better mannered than there native counter parts.
     
  14. Dwarfer

    Dwarfer New Member

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    You don't vote you don't get a say sorry!
     
  15. specofdust

    specofdust Banned

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    Why doesn't he get a say? He's complaining about the state of matters as they are. If anything, non-voters are the ones who have a right to complain, they don't cause political messes, voters do.
     
  16. Pieface

    Pieface Well-Known Member

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    Do you have no real comeback then?


    Oh silly me, I forgot you don't like to debate.
     
  17. Carrie

    Carrie Well-Known Member

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    I agree that he has a right to a say when it comes to his own country's situation but to say he has a greater right to complain because he doesn't vote is nonsensical frankly. He's chosen not to exercise a right he has, that is also his right as it stands, but it gives him no greater right to complain than one who does. If he were excluded from voting then your point would hold water but he hasn't been. Any legitimate occupant of this country has the same rights, exercised or not.

    No doubt dwarfer's point of view is if you don't exercise your right to vote you've foregone the right to complain because you've done nothing to change the political landscape and tbf he has a point. You certainly can't change something if you don't participate in it unless none does.
     
  18. Bogomip

    Bogomip ... Yo Momma

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    People who dont vote should still have a say, they just cant complain when the party in power does what it does :)

    Dwarfer:

    The problem is relative - I started my career in recession, we are now back into one. Throughout ive managed to get a job, pay for petrol, feed myself, cloth myself, enjoy life from time to time. The UK is still a fantastic place to live, and the reason is we have good enough governance that we don't all fall apart when the **** is hitting the fan all around us. Lots of european countries went for the euro, but we didn't (a Labour decision not to...), consequently we aren't in quite the same position as some of the rest of Europe.

    Allowing people into the country to escape their horrible country will not ruin ours- if anything its the price we pay for stealing all their medical professionals and scientists away with our minimum wage rules, fair legal system and good human rights.
     
    Last edited: 6 May 2012
  19. Combinho

    Combinho Ten kinds of awesome

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    As others say, they are not wholly to blame. Also, they are the mainstream party closest to (but still a fair way off) my ideals. I happen to believe in a fair country where we look after the worst off in society. In my opinion, a society is only as well off as its poorest members (if you educate and provide support and jobs to the poor, who exactly is going to commit crimes, scrounge benefits etc.). For that we need heavy investment in education and social services, a policy which is represented far better by Labour than the other parties.

    I could start on the Tories disastrous attempts at NHS reform (I don't know how they got away with not putting that in their manifesto) and other policies aimed at helping the haves rather than the have-nots. Labour are far from perfect, but in my opinion the Tories are downright despicable (xenophobia and helping the rich are not policies for a happy society).

    So long story short, yes Labour made mistakes, but the Tories look set to complete the bad work of Thatcher, and that means that I could never, ever vote for them with a clear conscience. The Lib Dems look to have sold out their ideals. I can see the Greens being the progressive party of choice in the not-too distant future, and a lot of what they say makes sense to me.

    Speaking of the Greens. I saw on the election coverage a member of one of the major parties lamenting any focus on environmental policies, as it was "not important to voters". Clearly, this is a massive issue for the medium to long term future, and this attitude outlines one of the biggest flaws of a modern democracy. Politicians have to be more concerned with the whims of the Mail-led public than what they know to be the most important long-term issues.

    On that note, I must quote Nexxo's wise words- people get the government they deserve. :sigh:
     
  20. Er-El

    Er-El Member

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    :confused: In another thread you were complaining about the spending cuts. Do you actually have any political views that you adhere to or do you just regurgitate what the papers tell you to?
     

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