Cooling Looking for new Radiator

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by keir, 10 Oct 2007.

  1. keir

    keir S p i t F i r e

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    I'm currently using a BIX 120 had it for about 3 or 4 years if not longer.

    It's cooling a 4800+ x2 then a 8800GTX

    So I'm thinking I should really upgrade to a 120.2 or even 120.3

    So is there really a need to upgrade, and is there a noticeable difference between 120.2 and 120.3?
     
  2. Guest-23315

    Guest-23315 Guest

    It depends how much room you have. Those PA's are 63mm or so without fans..
     
  3. Marci

    Marci Ex-O-CuK / ThermoChill

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    59mm for body of rad, 64mm including barb-holes... 84mm altogether including 25mm thick fans. Full dimensions for all ThermoChill rads, along with performance gains, can be found at ThermoChill.com.

    For reference... all leaving coolant at 10 deg C above ambient....

    38cfm fans installed on radiator on single side in pull config
    PA120.1 can remove around 100w of heat
    PA160 can remove around 140w of heat
    PA120.2 can remove around 200w of heat
    PA120.3 can remove around 300w of heat

    72cfm fans installed on radiator on single side in pull config
    PA120.1 can remove around 175w of heat
    PA160 can remove around 220w of heat
    PA120.2 can remove around 350w of heat
    PA120.3 can remove around 520w of heat

    105cfm fans installed on radiator on single side in pull config
    PA120.1 can remove around 210w of heat
    PA160 can remove around 250w of heat
    PA120.2 can remove around 410w of heat
    PA120.3 can remove around 620w of heat



    Assuming all your bits are at stock and NOT overclocked, you have 238w of heatload, + pump heatdump, so we'll say no more than 260w of heatload.

    A PA120.3 can cool this lot with 3x silent Nexus fans.
    A PA120.2 can cool this lot to (roughly) the same temp using 2x louder Delta1212 fans.
    A PA120.1 would be (imo) underspec'd for this heatload - it'll do it but at temps I'd deem higher than reasonable. (ie: The heatload is too much for the airflow, so coolant temps will reach equilibrium at a point HIGHER than 10 deg C above ambient... it'd do it to same temp as PA120.3 with 3x Nexus fans, but would require 1x Delta1212 fan, and would result in coolant 15 deg C above ambient, but, if given the same fan as your current rad, it'd still outperform your current rad assuming that your current fan is 100cfm or lower).
     
    Last edited: 10 Oct 2007
  4. radodrill

    radodrill Resident EI

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    I think the OP was asking if there'd be a performance gain with a 240mm or 360mm Radiator vs a 120mm RAD; but wasn't necessarily set on using a Thermochill.

    With an 8800GTX (assuming full cover waterblock) + CPU you're probably close to the limits of the RAD; upgrading will (at the very least) give you more headroom for overclocking and H2O cooling more of the system in the future.
     
  5. Guest-23315

    Guest-23315 Guest

    I'd go for a PA120.2 mounted in the top of your case, or a 120.2/3 mounted via a rad-box at the back.
     
  6. Marci

    Marci Ex-O-CuK / ThermoChill

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    My post clearly shows the performance gains... bigger rad = less noise for same thermal dissipation, or more thermal dissipation with more noise. Don't mistake me giving data to illustrate a scenario as me advertising our products. The fact that the two go hand in hand is an unavoidable coincidence.

    Common sense says the gains are proportionally similar with any other company's line of radiators - I will only use own rads as reference when giving figures. To doso for any other manufacturer's line of rads would be plucking figures out of thin air, but the differences from a 120.1 to a 120.2 with the same fan (ie: with 38cfm fans cooling doubles from a 120.1 to a 120.2, and triples from a 120.1 to a 120.3) will be the same for every manufacturer's product lines where all models within that line share the same core (ie: same FPI and tube sizes)

    So (approximately, and assuming that in each case you're using multiples of the same fan), a BIXII will cool twice as much thermal load as a BIXI. A BIXIII will cool three times as much thermal load as a BIXI
    A BIGTSII will cool twice as much thermal load as a GTSI. A GTSIII will cool three times as much as a GTSI
    A BIGTXII will cool twice as much thermal load as a GTXI. A GTXIII will cool three times as much as a GTXI.

    Alternatively, speaking figuratively without any accuracy at all...
    A [BLAH]II will cool the same thermal load as a [BLAH]I, but at less the noise. A [BLAH]III could potentially do it at an even lower noise level.

    This rule doesn't apply to Swiftech or Coolingworks rads, as their FPI count is different on their 120.2 and 120.3 footprint rads to that of their 120.1 footprint rads iirc.

    BlackIce's BTU figures for the series of rads the OP is using (BIX) were achieved at notoriously ridiculous conditions so I won't ever talk using their figures as a basis.

    If anything my post highlights that it isn't a question with a clearcut answer.

    What does the OP want? More headroom to add more thermal load (ie: add more watercooled components, or overclock further, or change to a CPU with a higher TDP)? Cool exactly the same stuff but at lower noise levels whilst retaining same temps as current setup? Lower temps all round and lower noise (unlikely to happen)?

    Illustrating my point of it being an open-ended question....

    ...assuming you stick with multiples of the same fan you're currently using, or stronger fans. If you go to a larger rad, but put significantly weaker fans on than your current setup, you may not gain any headroom at all and end up with exactly the same performance as you currently have, but in silence.
     
    Last edited: 10 Oct 2007
  7. radodrill

    radodrill Resident EI

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    exactly; rad selection is very much dependent on application.
     
  8. E.E.L. Ambiense

    E.E.L. Ambiense Acrylic Heretic

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    I may be biased about ANYTHING from Thermochill, but I'd get as much rad as I can in whatever case I'm putting it in (obviously). If the OP is using his v1000, he doesn't have many options for mounting locations. I know you can sandwich a 160 or perhaps a 120.2 in it, but it just depends. He'll just have to jump in and state exactly what his needs are.
     
  9. Marci

    Marci Ex-O-CuK / ThermoChill

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    120.2 in floor with fans on outside of the case (underneath), 2nd 120.2 in roof with fans inside the case. Use the lower CD Bays, sacrifice the uppers to the 2nd rad. Move HDDs up to the center divider. All depends if the v1000 has the length to get double rad and PSU in the base... I know the v1200 (pictured below) has...

    [​IMG]

    Stick 2nd rad in the roof, right up to the front of the case.
     
    Last edited: 10 Oct 2007
  10. E.E.L. Ambiense

    E.E.L. Ambiense Acrylic Heretic

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    Awesome! If anyone would know, it'd be you Marci. I'm sure you've done your fair share of shoehorning your awesome rads in any case someone brings you, so I'm glad you cleared that up. Should help out the OP and anyone else curious whether they can get away with that. Food for thought and all. :thumb:
     
  11. keir

    keir S p i t F i r e

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    Awesome thanks guys, seems like a PA120.3 Is what I'm after.

    Ideally I'd mount it on the outside of my case on the left side. (hidden from view)

    Where would I be able to get PA120.3 and the shroud for it?

    Edit - ahh theres a buy button lol
     
  12. keir

    keir S p i t F i r e

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    BTW How would you mount the Rad to a side panel? Lian-Li V1000, So its thick aluminum.
     
  13. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Will work for nuts Super Moderator

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    you cut/dremel/drill, carefully ;)

    a decent jigsaw would be best. Cheapos really arent worth bothering with imo, but a decent one will go through it like butter. A dremel would work, but would take a good long time and not give as clean a cut (but theyre infinitely useful for so many other things)
     
  14. x06jsp

    x06jsp da ginger monkey!!!!

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  15. Mister_Tad

    Mister_Tad Will work for nuts Super Moderator

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    not very elegant though
     
  16. E.E.L. Ambiense

    E.E.L. Ambiense Acrylic Heretic

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    Neither is mounting it on the side of the case, lol!

    In all seriousness, make sure you if you go the jigsaw route that you use metal/smooth cut blades that have a high teeth per inch (I use 18 teeth per inch ones) or you'll do more damage than good.
     
  17. x06jsp

    x06jsp da ginger monkey!!!!

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    yer my option is mounting on the side of the case using struts.
     
  18. keir

    keir S p i t F i r e

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    I think thats the best idea, as it'll give some breathing space. I just cant see it holding a rad that size.

    maybe building a rad box is a better idea. I just don't want it to look too out of place.

    Edit - I've just measured it up and I would be able to hide a 120.3 rad on the side. Standing up vertically. Can anyone see this being a problem?
     
    Last edited: 11 Oct 2007
  19. x06jsp

    x06jsp da ginger monkey!!!!

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    it can hold that size rad seen it done many times before!
     
  20. keir

    keir S p i t F i r e

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    Well Im struggling to find some pics of it done, care to share?
     
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