It was another fantastic bit of journalism by Louis, i always make time for his stuff. What a bunch of loonies though...
Was funny when one bloke was condemning Louis for being Jewish. Louis reminds him that Jesus was Jewish. Then the bloke starts saying that the Jews killed Jesus, and Louis is like no, the Romans did.
It was an interesting documentary, i find it hard for Fred Phelps to claim excellent knowledge of scripture when he just shouts down and doesnt answer questions about his believes when challenged. I watched it thinking i would hate the family but i didnt in most respects i feel sorry for them as their hate they inflict against on others last a day or so the hate which they carry in themselves lasts as long as they hold the beliefs that they do. If they carry the true word of god them im pleased im agnostic.
...but everybody readily accepts the view of Muslims as fundamentalist Jihadist nutters. Well, now you've seen the Christian equivalent. Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, no? This is definitely a cult. But the issue is not primarily one of control (although it comes a close second); it is about depair. It is about terror. The leader, Rev. Phelps, is a little ball of existentialist despair sublimated into narcissistic rage. He refuses to engage in discussion because he is terrified that someone will unmask him as the not terribly bright, narrow-minded bumpkin he (knows) he is. He has no philosophy, no deep religious insight. He just rages against a world that makes him feel fearful and inadequate. He is not proselitising for God, if anything he is spitting God in the eye. Deep down he harbours fantasies that he is better than God, and that when he goes to heaven the first thing he'll do is kick Him off His throne. The "hottie", like most of her siblings is caught between a mental rock and a hard place. I don't think she likes to follow this lifestyle at all, but she is absolutely terrified that she will go straight to hell if she doesn't (she is still a child, really). In any case she would risk being cast out of the family, and she has no-one in the outside world to turn to. The "converted" ex-document maker is simply a guy who mistook existential emptiness for liberalism. He felt aimless and anxious and Phelps came and filled the void with his absolute certainty. Amen. Unfortunately, what he is doing is not going to bring him the salvation he so desperately seeks. When he eventually finds out, it will, as always, be Too Late. Of course, there was some heavy projection going on by everyone involved. All the "sins" they accuse others of, they are committing themselves. Self-indulgance, pride (hubris, even), hate, blasphemy, willful ignorance, the lot. But that is how many personality disorders, particularly narcissism, work. Personally I couldn't get over how perfect that belief system was. It is totally self-serving, gives a tremendous sense of superiority, eliminates all doubt and delivers as a massive added bonus the conviction that the more you behave like an egocentric self-important ***hole, the more approval and reward you will get from God. The more you are challenged, the more it confirms you were right all along. It is like a polished stainless steel ball: there is no grip, no purchase; nothing can get in or out. My concern is more how many of these people studied law. It is as if they are gearing up for something... I suspect that soon they will be defending gay-bashers pro-bono.
Funny you should post that, because half-way through the programme I turned to my girlfriend and said "Darling, you know the church leader? My assessment is that he's a little ball of existentialist despair sublimated into narcissistic rage." Well I actually called him a power hungry little ****, but it's the same thing really.
It's repeated again tonight at 23:00 (I think) on BBC2. As I've known about the Phelps lot for a while it was more shocking to me how all the female members of the family were exactly the same. They were just identical... Freaky. I find the stuff they're preaching is just laughable. It isn't worthy of me getting angry about it, they love all that.
if they live by the bible, they should know that nowhere does it teach people go to hell. in fact somewhere in ecclesiastes it states as bluntly as possible, when a man dies he stops existing. that's it. sure, hellfire is mentioned but always when considered in context it's clear it's being used in a figurative sense. (gehenna was a name for the valley of Hinnom, a place next to jerusalem used as a dumping ground. there were always fires lit there to burn the waste so the term 'gehenna' is often used as a term for permanent destruction)
If they lived my the bible they might realise that there is is at least 3 trains of thought regarding the afterlife and thats just in the church of england. To some hell doesn't exist, however as most of the differing views do agree on there being a heaven, to which the just/rightous/faithful go to then mans body stops his soul goes on, therefore to these people, not being in heaven would be hell. But your right in that the bible never states that hell is this roasty place with people being tortured by pitchforks wielding demons.
Hell is described in the Bible as "the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever" Re.20:10, 14:10-11), and not only this, but there are similar discription dotted all over the Bible even where humans were swallowed whole into Hades. Thats what the Bible says no matter what our views are.
Of course though, it never says that God hates gay people, or the Jews, or that God wants people in Hell. Thats crazy. I don't know what translation they are reading! Thats hardly a description of a loving God.
And the first part of that verse "Rev.20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into" so that would be the devil cast into the burning lake not man. Also the burning lake is never described as hell, indeed in Rev. 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Hell itself is actually cast into the lake. Therefore making it hard for hell to be the burning lake. Edit, in truth one of the parts of the bible guaranteed to cause arguments between Christians is Revelations, is it an analogy, is it a prophecy, it is a bad trip for St. John.
Yes, that verse does not describe a human going into Hell. I'd always agree with that, unless, of course I found out that the false propet was human. Hades on the other side of the chasam seperating Paradise and Hades is swallowed up. Paradise is where the saints where waiting to enter Heaven, and Hades is where the unrepentant went to stay until they entered the burning lake which would be hard to imagine isin't Hell.
Watching it right now and it's suddenly dawned on me.... The girl that Louis says has the extra tension is a closet case. Think about it, there are 12 (I think), odds are one of them is gay/bi.
Very interesting program. Louis is a masterfull interviewer/documentary maker - I'm glad to see theres a new series on the beeb. I actually had no problem with the Phelps' beliefs. In some respects I admire their beliefs. If you're going to follow a stupid religion you may as well follow it strictly and to the letter. OTOH, their method of broadcasting their beliefs were rupugnant, as was their arrogance and bitter anger that seemed to be inside most of them. Something good comes from them though - in a country with millions of guns, very high violent crime rates, lots of people with massively opposing viewpoints to their own; no-one has killed them. It's amazing, and I'm sure there are so many other countries where you just couldn't do what they do without at least being hospitalised on a regular basis. The reserve shown by the US public in dealing(or rather, putting up with) these people is admirable.
You just start watch every ep wondering if this is the one where he will just push them over the edge I saw this, and i'm not surprised at there being these kind of people in the world. What shocked me was when the little boy got a drink thrown at him and they blamed the driver... surely under their beliefs the drink was directed at the boys head from god, not from the man Also yes, girl was hot - I was hoping louis was gonna be like, "sooo... wanna get it on? ", and she'd have been like "hehehe"
Yes! That's exactly what I loved about the programme. He made the head honcho guy come across as so insecure, and made the girl (the one who people think is hot) look really quite doubtful about what she was doing at a few points while he was talking to her. I can imagine it now! She had such a nervous laugh. I think they were citing Romans 1 as the anti-gay bit of the Bible.
