Apple Mac Vs PC - what is the industry standard for graphic design

To be honest, if you figure the price of the screen in a 27" imac, they are cheap....wouldn't buy one though. If you buy that same panel in a monitor from Dell its something like $1100.

 

but with that you get a closed product.... I would rather pay more for future upgradability, a more powerful gfx card right off the bat, etc, and not giving Apple money.

 

Mac Pro Configuration: £2716
Two 2.26GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
6GB (6x1GB)
640GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
ATI Radeon HD 4870 512MB
One 18x SuperDrive
Apple Mouse
Apple Keyboard with Numeric Keypad (British) and User's Guide (English)

Armari Magnetar CX3: £2713.79
Case : Supermicro SC733i-645 - Black Workstation Chassis with 645Watt EATX PSU
Motherboard : Supermicro X8DAL-i Rev 2.0 Dual Xeon™ 55/56 series Workstation Motherboard
CPU : Dual Intel Xeon® E5620 Processor, 2.40GHz (Quad-Core/8 thread SMT)
CPU Cooler : Intel STS100C - Xeon W55xx LGA1366 130Watt CPU Coolers (PAIR)
Memory : 12GB Corsair XMS3 DDR3-1333 (PC3-10666) Matched SDRAM memory Kit
Graphics : Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB GDDR5 PCI-E with EyeFinity & CrossfireX
Hard drive : Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB SATA-II Hard Disk HD103SJ
Additional Drives : 1 x OCZ Vertex Series Turbo 60GB SSD SATA II 2.5" Hard Disk
CD/DVD Drive : Sony NEC Optiarc Multi-Format DVD Writer (SATA)
Floppy drives : Akasa 8-slot Flash media/SIMM/Smart card reader. Internal 3.5" USB 2.0
Sound : Motherboard Audio - High Definition 7.1 Channel Audio
Keyboard : Logitech Deluxe 250 Keyboard (USB)
Mouse : Logitech RX250 Scroll Optical Wheel Mouse BLACK (OEM)
O/S : Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64Bit (OEM)
Anti Virus : Microsoft Security Essentials Anti-Virus & Anti-Spam (FREE)
Warranty : Armari 2 Year Standard Workstation Warranty for Systems

I'd say the Armari beats the Mac Pro hands down. I wasn't even able to get a more powerful card for the Mac than the 4870, which is beaten by the 5870. Also the Armari has 2x 2.4GHz Xeons compared to the Mac Pro's 2.26 GHz Xeons, double the memory and a 1TB HDD + 60GB SSD compared to 640GB. Without the SSD it's much less @ £2437.67 - thats a saving of £278.

In the UK, Macs are too expensive.

 

Try speccing the Armari with ECC ram like the Mac has. Watch the price go up by £110. Then spec a PSU comparable with the Mac, the Pro has a 980W unit, server grade. The Armari has a 645w Supermicro branded one made by FSP.

Then try using the same CPU as the Mac Pro has, you have to add £305.

The CPU speed is lower, for some reason the CPU is more expensive.

Also the Mac Pro motherboard has the possiblity for more expansion.

Apart from the fact they both need something like Fire GL or a Quadro.

I think the HP Z series is a better comparison. Armari machines, like CAD2 or whatever they are called now and Imagine Workstations are just off the shelf components built with a warranty. I expect Scan could be more better on price.

 

Also the Mac case is just absolutely stunning.

 

If you look well, you can find just as nice or even better (depending on a person taste).

 

http://www.apple.com/macpro/specs.html
If you look at the apple specs, the Mac-Pro is specced with two of the old generation of 5507 series Xeons as standard.
The Armari is specced with two of the new 5620 series Xeons, which are somewhat faster faster-->see the Bit-tech review. The difference will be much less marked in this case as both the machines use quad-cores and not the latest 6-core but hte chip I chose is still clocked 140MHzz faster.
I imagine you tried to spec the machine with 2 of the new 2.26Ghz, 6-core L5640 Xeon processors which is why you believed the price charged by Armari was excessive.

The price of adding ECC memory is significant, but if you half the memory added to the same as the 6GB of the Mac, then once again it is not a factor as the 6GB of 1066MHz ECC RAM(same as the Mac Specs) is £40 less than the 12GB of 1333MHz specced with the Armari. I concede the point with the expandability of the Mac's PSU, however you could also not buy the SSD on the Armari and upgrade the PSU and use a FireGL or Quadro (which Apple didn't have an option for).
This is why in reviews of workstation systems in magazines like 3Dworld the Mac Pro doesn't win out. As has been said earlier in the thread, it's software that gets Mac users, not hardware.
The major downside of the Armari in my opinion is the smaller case it is enclosed in-the Mac Pro case is considerably superior.
I also don't know why I didn't remove the floppy drive in the spec up...

Don't get me wrong guys, the Mac Pro is a beautiful thing...but I wouldn't buy one with my own money.

 

I think the point is, most other workstations have **** cases. As for stuff from firms like Armari, well they are just putting parts together in this case. I like to see bespoke cases, not stuff I could pick up from Ebuyer.

 

I agree, but I was comparing it to the ugly supermicro case that was in the Armari system.

 

Armari Magnetar NDX
Case : Coolermaster Cosmos 1000 Chassis No PSU
PSU : be quiet! Dark Power PRO P8 1000Watt, the ultimate low noise energy efficent PSU
Motherboard : Supermicro X8DAi Rev 2 Dual Xeon™ 56xx/55xx Wortstation E-ATX Motherboard
CPU : Dual Intel Xeon® E5620 Processor, 2.40GHz (Quad-Core/8 thread SMT)
CPU Cooler : Supermicro SNK-P0035AP4 Low Noise Cooler for LGA775/1366 Processors (PAIR)
Memory : 6GB DDR3-1066 ECC Registered SDRAM (6 x 1GB Modules)
Graphics : PNY QuadroFX 1800 768MB GDDR3 PCI-E Professional 3D Graphics Card
Hard drive : Western Digital RE3 Enterprise 1TB SATA-II Hard Disk WD1002FBYS
CD/DVD Drive : Sony NEC Optiarc Multi-Format DVD Writer (SATA)
Floppy drives : Akasa 8-slot Flash media/SIMM/Smart card reader. Internal 3.5" USB 2.0
O/S : Microsoft Windows 7 Professional 64Bit (OEM)
Anti Virus : Microsoft Security Essentials Anti-Virus & Anti-Spam (FREE)
Warranty : Armari 2 Year Standard Workstation Warranty for Systems
Price: £2687.37(inc VAT)

That case any better?

 

Wrap it in a nice Lian Li or even a Corsair and it would be more to my taste although I really like the Cosmos (it weighs a ton though).

 

Heck I'd just phone them and ask Armari to do it. They have to assemble each one anyway.

 

..or just buy a mac

 

This

Don't know if you'll have read it before, but I have a Q9000 in my laptop that outperforms the later model PowerPC model Mac Pros (same RAM, silimar hard drive), If a laptop's overtaken Mac a dekstop are leagues ahead of them

Especially when you look at the cost of a Mac Pro in comparison to an i7 (sometimes even a Xeon) rig.

EDIT: I stand corrected, even some laptops outperform Macs by a fair amount

 

You really can't compare a remotely modern PC to PowerPC.

I like how this discussion has inevitably spiraled into an issue of cost vs. value. I think Macs have comparable value because I enjoy using OS X. I don't care if your PC can outperform on SuperPi or you can get a better graphics card for a fraction of the cost, you can't run OS X and I want to run OS X.

His original question was what was the industry standard for graphic design, and from what I've seen, the majority uses Macs. I don't know why they do. Maybe because firms have the money to expense account their computers, or maybe because they're easier to set up and administer for less computer savvy designer types. Who knows!? I know I use a Mac for my design work because OS X is nicer to use (my sole personal opinion), and I use a PC for gaming because they're cheaper for more power, and gaming is just better and more supported on Windows.

 

Im suprised that so many people have voted PC, as many (most) graphic design firms will only recruit people that have experience with macs. Of course when you go into 3d Design the line becomes much more blurred as 3d CAD software is needed, although there will often still be equal numbers of macs/pc.

 

Like I said, Apple pays million in making companies think that Mac is the only system that can do graphics. If you use anything else in the world, your no a professional. This should come of no surprise to anyone, Apple invest more in marketing and door-to-door marketing (company to company, educational establishment to another) to promote their products than research and innovation. As for schools, Apple even give away free computers, if students in school uses Mac's, they will grow in using one. So it's effective advertisement here again. Who would say no to free 100+ computers with installation?! No one, except us as we know that the real world is using PC's, and that Apple is a company going up and down way too fast, providing no stability, which can fall and potentially need once more Microsoft intervention to save them.

Here, we are all computer enthusiasts, we know that hardware performs the same whether it's on a Mac or PC. Sadly, many people don't. And all they (the companies being approached by Apple) see is graphs like these:


Chee... look how much Mac's are faster than PC at Photoshop! Let's not question these stats, I mean they come from Apple! They sure seams like they know their stuff, unlike Microsoft, and other computer manufactures. Sooo where do I sign? What's that Apple? 5% off if we switch all of our computers to Mac's, and a continued 5% off any future purchase if we continue to only have Mac's in our company with a minimum of using Mac only environment for 15 years.?! 5% OFF you underline... DEAL!

 

Apple have based most of their marketing on misleading people, and in some case downright lies. It's even easy to find evidence of this, such as when they were calling the G5 the worlds most powerful personal computer (they call Mac's PC when it suits them also it seems) when it wasn't.

When Core 2 first came out, they exaggerated their graphs and results comparisons. Even now they are still calling weak, poxy Nvidia chipsets, 'blazingly fast' and other nonsense. Dell and others do it, but they aren't doing it in such a ludicrous way.

Having said that, Apple do make some fine products, but their killer product is slick marketing. When Adobe CS4 had no 64bit support for Mac's I was happy to show a colleague, who had an 8 Core Mac pro, how much faster my STOCK SPEED Q6600 pc was with two hard drives and 8GB of ram, running a photomerge, than his 8 Core 3GHz Mac Pro, even though he also had 8 gigs of ram, he could use about 3 with 32 bit CS4.

He even, after the crappy stock speed 'Windoze' PC beating his 8 core Mac by a considerable length, tell me that if he had told PS to use the rest of his ram as 'scratch' he would have won, but he 'didn't have time' to do it. Its just as well he didn't as that is just a fairy tale Mac user dreamed up. Earlier that year he also told me that Apple were the only firm to get Intels 'high speed' processors....

I don't give a damn what machine people are using, but then they start spouting rubbish about some superior aspect of it, that isn't true its annoying. This same guy, bought an Audi 1.9 TDI whilst he worked with me in the NHS and had told everyone in the building he had the 'fastest car by a country mile now'. It turns out he was basing this information on the fact the Audi could go from 30-50 (in fifth gear) quicker than anyone elses car.

 

I love all the Apple haters who appear when posts like this crop up I've voted Mac because having worked in the industry for years, it is clearly primarily Mac-based in the UK.

I have a PC and grew up with overclocking and modding, but I only ever touch it for gaming nowadays because (IMO obviously) OS X is faster, easier and more powerful than Windows for day to day use, graphics and web development. PCs are great as a hobby, but if you want a computer to actually use, Apple's hardware combined with OS X are generations ahead in terms of usability and maturity, though I'll admit Windows 7 has started to close the gap a little.

 

I agree. But if anybody here wants to talk to the industry about changing operating systems because a desktop costs less than an iMac, then be my guest. Good luck convincing the thousands of studios.

Also, the problem of IT and setup never really occurs for many either. For these firms, costs aren't just the extra $300 spent on a shiny aluminum shell — it's saving whatever additional IT they may need to run a PC based operation. I don't know what the real costs are, but from my understanding, Mac servers are easier and cheaper to run than Windows servers — and if anyone suggests Linux, they should try convincing industry to switch over.

Graphic designers are not the most tech savvy. Their job is to make graphics, not save every last penny and have the most optimal computers and systems. They just need easy to use/manage tools that let them design whatever they were commissioned for.