So you are saying that atheism is slightly better? Big whoop. It is just believing in one less God. For 100 women a year it does. You're just not seeing the connection. Of course this society still treats many women as property, it is only more subtle about it. There is still a glass ceiling. Women still get paid less for the same job. They still take the husband's name. They are still sexualised from an early age. They still are the more frequent victim of domestic abuse and they still get inadequate legal protection from that. No, we sent those to Afghanistan in the 80's. But the reason Muslims in those countries go ape-**** at the burning of a Koran in the West is not because they are Muslim, but because they are illiterate backward people living in a poor country that we have been bombing because we decided that's for their own good (of course, the real motive is that it is for our good). They are the Muslim equivalent of the Daily Mail and Sun reader, if you will. Moreover, they are Daily Mail readers with no policing. The only reason that they killed UN workers and our Daily Mail readers over here don't kill, say, Eastern European immigrants (much; in Germany asylum hostels have been firebombed) is because we actually have an effective law enforcement system. But if that packed up tomorrow you'd be surprised at how quickly atheists will kill, and how many tribal/trivial reasons they find for it. I disagree. Your logic is sound, but in reality it us not that simple. The Amish use the same book and systemic beliefs to preach absolute non-violence. Some atheists have no moral centre at all, because they have no personal one and no systemic one. People are not equations. You cannot simply subtract a variable X and end up with Human-X. No, that is your way. It is not every atheist's way (and no cheating by suddenly adding the variable "science"). Not belief, scientific opinion. People are psychologically more complex than you make out. You do not turn a homicidal fundamentalist into a tolerant pacifist just by subtracting religion from the equation. There are reasons why he integrated that belief system in a particular homicidal fundamentalist way in the first place, just as another integrates the very same belief system to become a self-effacing charitable supporter of the poor and destitute. These reasons exist in atheists and even scientists in equal measure. My argument is that religion makes NO difference --neither in a good way or a bad way. People were people before it came along. It is simply an epiphenomenon of human nature.