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Graphics Mantle API

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by rollo, 15 Oct 2013.

  1. rollo

    rollo Modder

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    Microsoft have confirmed in a blog post that mantle API is not there low level API used in Xbox one.

    AMD have also had to say its not also.

    Anandtech seemed sure it was and I think a lot of AMD fans thought it was.

    This changes a lot of what it will or won't do. If the consoles don't use it then we are back to the same story of physics you will have games that have it or do not have it.

    Physics has never really took off in anyway its in so few games mostly nvidia sponsored games. Will mantle head the same way been in AMD sponsored games.

    At least before you would of had ports using it now you have basically not a lot of much.
     
  2. Parge

    Parge the worst Super Moderator

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    Loads more Mantle news from APU13!

    15 New games supporting it just from EA

    • BF4
    • Star Wars Battlefront
    • Mass Effect future games
    • New Mirrors Edge
    • New NFS games
    • New Dragon Age
    • New games from Bioware, Popcap, Visceral Games (Dead Space etc)


    As well as:
    • Thief
    • Star Citizen

    Highlights (claimed)
    • Completely changes the landscape for multicore CPUs. In Mantle, the GPU will almost always be the bottleneck - you can underclock an 8350 to 2GHZ and still have a 290x be the bottleneck.
    • Chance for API overhead to be reduced from 40% to 8% using Mantle vs DirectX
    • Significantly easier to build an efficient renderer with Mantle vs Open GL so could be good for Linux and OSX.
    • Not unrealistic to get extra 20% GPU performance
    • NOT tied to GCN architecture due to it being a thin hardware abstraction
    • Forward compatible with other architectures
    • Most Mantle functionality can be supported on todays modern GPUs (NVidia)
    • Dice want to see it on all platforms and modern GPUs, and want more support from other vendors (eg Crytek etc)
    • Battlefield 4 patch released at end of December
    • Took around two months to programme

    I've got a 7850 in my LAN rig - literally cannot wait to test out BF4 in late December.
     
    Last edited: 14 Nov 2013
  3. bdigital

    bdigital Is re-building his PC again

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    Oh thats interesting stuff cheers for sharing. So do I just grab the latest drivers for my 7970 when the time comes?
     
    Last edited: 14 Nov 2013
  4. bawjaws

    bawjaws Multimodder

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    Hehe, Parge, I know you love Star Citizen, but surely not so much that you're counting it twice in your list above? :D

    With Mantle, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, so let's hope that we start seeing some actual performance figures and comparisons with DirectX soon. If it lives up to the hype generated so far then it'll be a significant step forward.
     
  5. Parge

    Parge the worst Super Moderator

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    Removed from the first list :thumb:

    Very much so, - things are looking very promising at the moment. For me, it’s a no brainer since the two games I’m most looking forward to both support it (BF4 and Star Citizen) and it means I can stay on Z77 for another few years.
     
  6. bdigital

    bdigital Is re-building his PC again

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    Im hopeful that Dragon Age is more lime the original than the 2nd. I loved the original, brilliant game.

    P.s youve listed it twice lol

    Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
     
  7. Shirty

    Shirty W*nker! Super Moderator

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    This is what excites me. That's a real performance boost right there.

    PhysX is great where implemented properly, but doesn't actually boost performance, it just adds in PhysX features in supported games on supported GPUs.

    The amount of quick developer support and indeed the fact that the devs themselves asked for the API might well change the landscape of PC gaming very quickly.

    Of course, all of this remains to be seen, but the devs themselves seem pretty excited about it which translates to me also being excited.
     
  8. AlienwareAndy

    AlienwareAndy What's a Dremel?

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    Can't wait. It's kinda like a free gift for buying an AMD GPU :)
     
  9. GeorgeStorm

    GeorgeStorm Aggressive PC Builder

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    Or nvidia as long as it's relatively recent from what they've said.
     
  10. AlienwareAndy

    AlienwareAndy What's a Dremel?

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    Ooo that could work then :) I wonder if my 670s will work with it?
     
  11. BubbySoup

    BubbySoup What's a Dremel?

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    That's pretty damn amazing if true! :D
     
  12. Parge

    Parge the worst Super Moderator

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    Nvidia don't really have a history of working with AMD on projects, so I have to say, I'd be surprised if they got on board with this any time soon.

    I agree, its exactly like that. My friends Tahiti XT purchase is looking like a great call right about now.

    I'll almost certainly be buying a Radeon this time next year, for BF4 and Star Citizen.
     
  13. Harlequin

    Harlequin Modder

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    PhysX in the original mirrors edge (on an aegia card) is actually really good - you can see whats been added and where
     
  14. Parge

    Parge the worst Super Moderator

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    More info

    Multi GPU CFX setups.

    Explicit control of GPU queues and synchronisation - devs can implement their own Alternate frame rendering or even using Oculus Rift - use Mantle to dedicate a single GPU to each eye.


    Additionally.
    Mantle shares concepts, methods and optimization strategies with the PS4 graphics API.

    - Not sure of the scope of this, but more should be revealed as the games are released.
     
  15. AlienwareAndy

    AlienwareAndy What's a Dremel?

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    Tell you what I found hilarious. Tomb Raider. My 670 SLI are faster than my 7990 haha.

    Mind you, that's about the only victory the 670s can claim tbh.
     
  16. AlienwareAndy

    AlienwareAndy What's a Dremel?

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    ME IMO was one of the finest games ever made. And yes, Physx really made it even more special.
     
  17. Parge

    Parge the worst Super Moderator

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    More info.

    Currently PC games max out at about 15k draw calls due to DirectX limitations - this is one advantage the consoles have over PCs.

    Using Mantle we should be able to increase that to 100k right off the bat, 300k by 2015 and 1 million by 2018.

    If anyone is wondering what a draw call is, my understanding is its a request made to the GPU to render everything that is needed for a mesh, and if you increase the amount you can do per second or can do more polgyons in 1 draw call then you get faster performance.
     
  18. law99

    law99 Custom User Title

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    There is stuff in here about it: HERE

    Specifically here on page two:

    20% performance increase on a GPU seems pretty heavyweight to me... HEY: what about multi gpu?
     
    Last edited: 14 Nov 2013
  19. bartiszon

    bartiszon Minimodder

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    I wouldn't expect much in this year.

    John Anderson from DICE (Frostbite Engine) at Editors Day 2013 in Montreal:
    "...Mantle in Battlefield 4 will mostly deal with shadows. One thing I want you to keep in mind - don't judge Mantle by its implementation in Battlefield 4..."
     
  20. bawjaws

    bawjaws Multimodder

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    Yeah, I think it's important to remember that Mantle is a developing technology, so it will need time to mature and for developers to really squeeze extra performance out of it. So whilst it'll be interesting to see how the first generation of Mantle-enabled games fare, it's likely that they'll not be representative of what we may see further down the line - if performance under Mantle isn't a quantum leap forward from DirectX, then all isn't lost. On the other hand, if Mantle does significantly outperform Dx, then it's all good as we can hopefully look forward to even greater gains in the future.
     

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