Discussion in 'Article Discussion' started by CardJoe, 7 May 2008.
Oops, sorry yes! Forgive me. I'm replying to too many people at once!!
I think a couple of us (me especially) have made our views in full in this topic
Hehe you're forgiven
I honestly can't believe people are talking about not buying the games or even stealing them just because they don't like the licensing scheme. That's some straight-up, childish BS. The fact that people would rather have it distributed over Steam, where a license check is required with every single launch of the game, is just baffling to me.
Copyright protection does not drive people to piracy. People talk about how they are fed up with the security measures to justify their desire not to spend money. If this were any other industry, these claims wouldn't be taken seriously for a moment.
"Man, the bookstore just installed a magnetic security device. I don't want them scanning my ****! I'll just break in through a window tonight and rob the place."
"This is BS! The airlines want me to show a photo ID to prove I actually bought my ticket?!?! F that noise, I'll just hijack one of their planes."
It's an exercise in reductio ad absurdum, but it's still informative. If it was just Securom that bothered you, you could buy a copy of the game and then crack it so you don't have to re-authenticate. It would still be an illegal use of the software, but at least you aren't stealing it. I'll forgive you for bending the terms of the EULA because at least that way I won't be paying for the game for you when I buy and use it legitimately. Let's please stop trying to justify theft in reaction to security measures.
Piracy, of course, leads to more CP because developers want to (legitimately) protect their product from theft. So what should we do if we want less restrictive safety mechanisms attached to PC games?
MrMonroe you do know that you have the offline mode in steam? as in, you don't need to authenticate every time you want to play it....
i feel that they will change this once they see the amount of people saying they wont buy this....
what bothers me the most is that they are using securom.....
True, but it's also supporting the use of overly restrictive CP.. i do not want to reward them for retarded and ineffective measures that only effect paying customers.
Very OTT, if the bookstore covered each book in locks that relocked the books randomly forcing you to ring up the shop to get permission to read the book you just purchased, you might have a point
And the airport example is just off-the-scale OTT by orders of magnitude
Basic catch22 situation:
piracy leads to more CP
CP leads to more piracy
result: piracy increases steadily without anything to keep it in check untill it becomes not viable to release games.
The above was the same approach the music industry took to DRM, see how increasing the DRM helped them so much *cough*
they're doing just fine with unlocked MP3's now.
So the simple solution, as i said before, small CP to deter the most casual pirates. Thats it.
Steam does need to autheticate every four or five times it runs a game in offline though apparently. Valve just won;t discuss it with anyone.
Arse. I was looking forward to both these games.
I'd love to know how many people where, like me, going to buy these games but now won't be.
Here we go with my opinions on this whole saga.
Way back in the day, I used to do a lot of LAN gaming. The main problem was, however, that game manufacturers loved to have you "Insert the original CD" to play the game. This meant you had to carry around all your game CDs with you, and that was a problem, as they could get scratched etc. It also meant there was a (not insignificant) delay loading games to play because you had to dig out the CD, insert it, and the game had to recognise it.
So sites like GCW started appearing. They didn't pirate the games, they simply detailed what files needed to be copied off the CD to "finish" the install properly, and removed the CD check from games you already owned. Great! No more carrying around binders full of CDs! Faster loading times! More convenience!
Unfortunately, in the eyes of games publishers, this was still "Piracy".
I believe we will start seeing a return to those days, where "Copy Protection Removal" patches become more frequent. Take the HL2 launch (Where the Auth servers went down for days on end due to the sheer weight of traffic), or the Bioshock launch (Where similar things happened), and now look forward to that happening every 10 days, as more and more purchases phone home to re-authenticate, adding to the strain. And, of course, the other thing no-one wants to talk about is that you can bet your ass they will be using this to monitor how much you play.
So, does this mean I will *have* to start up these games every 10 days if I want to keep them? Or will a rootkit-like "service" sit in the background and "do it for me"? I can activate on 3 computers, so how do I "De-Activate" a copy for when I upgrade my PC? What happens in the event of a hard-drive crash? Does each "Activated" copy have to dial in independently? What happens with LAN Cafes?
I'm not condoning piracy, but copy protection systems this invasive will only serve to alienate customers, driving them towards people who can give them a better gaming, and computing, experience. That will either be programmers publishing patches to remove the draconian copy protection measures, or pirates who remove those measures to make illegal copies.
And those who think piracy doesn't exist on consoles are sadly deluding themselves. Sure, sometimes it takes a hardware modification to make it happen, but don't think for a moment that means people won't do it. There is a huge culture of warranty voiders out there, many of which also enjoy making the most out of what they have, and hanging out in places like here.
Piracy will always be around. And typically those who pirate material are not likely to have bought it in the first place. But measures like this will tip that balance. When downloading, extracting, burning and installing a pirated copy is faster and more convenient than buying a retail copy and playing it legitimately, the pirates have won.
wow well lets see one company closed down because they stated it was do to Piracy, now this company will probably close down due to stupidity lol (ya I know probably wont happen but still...), and I was looking forward to these games
I was looking forward to spore but this is ridiculous. I won't buy a game that isgoing to phone back every 10 days. I'll just grab a cracked version on a torrent site once they are out. I would like to know what happens to the people that don;t have internet connections at home? Luckily I do but I know a lot of people that live in the middle of no where and the best they get is dial-up. A friend just surfs the web at work and plays his games at home where he has no web connection at all. I guess those people can't play. If he has to register online to install he just hauls his pc to work to install the game then takes it back home. no way he is going to haul that thing every 10 days. I will be writing a letter to BioWare letting them know I won't be touching these games.
Hm...so is the next step going to involve you sending your DNA to game publishers to brand your disc to you or?
You know this isnt that hard, make a good game, make sure it has re playability, sell it fairly cheap. Piracy issue = gone, your bank accounts look awesome.
Who would download a hacked copy if you can go legit for cheap, I mean really? I like having the real deal but developers/publishers dont make it worth my while for the price most of the time. Example is Orange Box, well, well worth the $45. You get single player, a concept puzzle game, and endless hours of fun with TF2. And it also looks great on most systems
Now, the same $45 could be spent on Crysis, which has a blase story line, graphics that make my PC beg for a bullet most of the time to actually make it look decent, and some tacked on multiplayer.
I wonder which one would sell better...
I recently moved house and went without the internet for over a month. We barely get any kind of TV signal here, and with such copy-protection I might have been forced to go outdoors to seek my fun!
I don't like giving my money to people that don't let me play games without the internet (Lost Planet single-player was a bad example until it was patched), and I think instead of buying these games I shall buy something else without this ridiculous copy protection.
I didn't buy any games with Starforce and I wont buy these games, so you might say that their anti-piracy measures have cost them sales.
d'oh .. .. I'm very not inclined to get Mass Effect now.. and here I was really looking forward to it.. I think I'll wait to see how this turns out... I certainly won't pirate the game, but I can't say I'd pay money for a game like that .. ho hum :-/
you really think that huh?
u know... there's something called chipped consoles hmm? ring a bell? and actually... basically everyone I know... that owns a console with a chip simply decides to stop buying games and burns them, most PC games downloaders actually buy the games they play, unless they're under 12
Tink i'll stick to me360 and pirate spore when its cracked just to spite them...
My thoughts are now mixed.
In reading the initial story I was "Hell, no, I'm not buying something that has to keep verifying." Then I scrolled through the 175+ messages (so far) and saw some very valid points.... Be mad at the pirates..... You already have broadband, what's the problem?... and such.
I believe Spore would be a PC game I would really enjoy, and I do buy the games I play so i have to decide if it is worth the perceived inconvience. At this point in time I think that would be acceptable but I also worry about what's next? If we accept a small eroding of our "rights", then what is the next right that is taken away?
Regardless, it is interesting to see how many comments this topic has prompted.
I don't like this. Steam, offers advantages with its somewhat invasive copy protection, like not needing the CD in the drive, automatic patching and digital delivery, all which help make up for it. The fact that valve have been doing it long enough to be trusted also helps. EA on the other hand and this way of doing it ? I do not trust them and it doesn't bring any real advantage that I can see, so its purely a negative for these games.
Given these days as cynical and jaded as I am on the topic of games, Its very rare that I'll pay launch prices for any game, that negative is sufficient to likely put me right off buying either of these till the price has dropped a fair whack(£10-14) which is a shame, because I have been looking forward to them and theres a good chance I would have bought one or both if the launch prices had been reasonable. (to my mind, no more than £24.99 and lower is better, obviously)
I can point to another effect of copy protection from my personal experience by the way.
I've noticed that I almost never crack games I legitimately own, but If I don't finish them in the initial run while the disc is in the drive, its very rare I go back and finish them, which in turn makes it very rare that I go and buy any expansions (and to a slightly lesser degree sequels) since somewhere in the back of my mind is the fact I need to finish the original first.
I've actually completed the majority of games I have on steam however and the ones that come on discs but don't require the cd in the drive seem to also fare better, so I have tended to buy into expansions/sequels more.
This is basically my position. In practical terms, having a game do a license check every 10 days or even every 10 minutes wouldn't inconvenience me at all. I doubt I'd even know it was happening unless I was specifically watching for it. But this is my PC; I own it, I built it with my own two grubby little hands, and absolutely no one but me gets to say what gets installed and run on it. Aggressive DRM schemes are an invasion of my privacy and a violation of my rights.
The older I get, the easier I find it to stick to my principles even when they cause me some discomfort or inconvenience -- in this case, missing out on a few games I was looking forward to. If I bought these games I'd be telling the publishers that their DRM was acceptable, and it isn't. So I won't.
I'm going to come out and say that I pirated Bioshock. I played it, got bored very quickly and didn't buy it. To the person who said that Bioshock was hard to pirate, you are an idiot and don't know what you're talking about. It was the easiest install I've ever had off a torrent. No disk mounting, no cracked exe to copy over, just ran the installer and it worked.
I also pirated CoD4, played it, enjoyed it, bought it. Civ4: same story. Stalker, NWN 2, SupCom same again. Do you know what games I've bought without pirating? Steam games. Why? Because it is more hassle than most other games and steam is ridiculously convenient. I can have my games installed on as many different systems as I like. I get direct downloads. Pre-loads so I can be playing within minutes of release (assuming the servers don't crash under the load ). Community features that work across any game. Not to mention the huge selection of games available in the first place. Not to mention the fact that it actually ****ing works! It had some teething issues early on and people like Lepermessiah like to remind everyone at every chance the get.
What does SecuROM offer? Disabling the game if I don't connect to their servers every ten days. Thats it. Bugger that for a lark, I'll take the easy route and not bother with the game at all.
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