Basically, im looking for a couple of decent floorstanders and an amp just for music, but to be integrated into a surround system at a later date. (just have a small surround system now) While I know what's what when it comes to ultra-high-end kit as my dad is a bit of a fanatic, I'm not especially well versed in mid-range stuff in the price range im looking for. Its a pretty wide price range as I really dont know what I need to spend. My piddly surround speakers sound pants for music and I've heard £100k systems that sound just phenomenal - not a whole lot of experience in between. These are the surround speakers, now should I go ahead and get a cinema A/V receiver and use that to drive the floorstanders and the surrounds for films as well, or get a stereo amp and only use the floorstanders for music (from a Marantz CD63KI). Getting a cinema receiver now would make it easy to just bolt on a centre and 2 surrounds at a later date, but I don't want to spend more for a cinema amp to find that it sounds pants with the little surrounds now and end up just using it to drive the fronts (although that would likely just force me to replace the rest of the speakers, but thats beside the point ). any opinions? For the price range I've stated, what sort of kit should I be looking towards? Having had a bit of a browse round, if I were to choose something right now I'd probably go for a Marantz 7001 (worth the extra for the KI?) and keep my eye out for a second hand pair of B&W 604 S3s, a decent combo?
You might want to consider getting an integrated amp now then adding on a surround reciever later if you want surround. Most of the nicer recievers have line level 5.1 outputs, so you could run the surrounds out of the surround reciever but use the integrated amp to drive the mains. Better sound and cheaper in the short term, but more expensive (but still better sound) in the long term.
Thats what I'm leaning towards as well. The idea of going for an cinema amp now just kind of jumped into my head as I was writing the thread. I'm not fussed if its more in the long run. As you said, it will sound better and could mean that if I stick to budget can get something better (I'm not fussed about films now anyways, its just the music really) I've just had a listen to a pair of B&W 603s on a Rotel RA-03 and I wasn't really blown away and the Rotel would probably eat the Marantz 7001 for brekkie. I'm thinking I'd need a bit more juice than th RA-03 to push 604s as well, which just isn't going to fit in £1k for new I guess I'll start hunting around for second hand, liking the look of the Marantz PM-7200KI with some 604s. Are there any small obscure speaker manufacturers that I'm overlooking that would match up to something like B&W?
ok, as per speakers it really depends on your prefered style of music...i guess asthetics comes into it aswell, but if you are just going for sound, then it wont really bother you, or it shouldnt...for most things, i would say go with B&W fo sua! how much are you looking at paying for your 604s if you dont mind me asking, and would or could you be tempted with 603s (not the latest ones though, as I really dont rate the sound of the alu cones) as that should save you a bit of dosh...also if you like the sound of the rotel (which you could compare with NAD or marantz and I would say its a close call, as it will depend on what your ears prefer) have you had a look at getting a second hand one, as their older amps are still pretty good if you ask me, and you could probably pick up an amp plus a power amp (as you sound like youre serious about driving those lovely 604s) for under 300 or so (its been a long time since I bought some hifi gear).... or you could get the ra03 if you really like it and just pick up a rotel power amp of fleabay for like 80 quid or somethin just to bridge the gap....lots of possibilities really, but I would really say, that if you are serious about it, and want to spend that kind of money, I would try and find a hifi shop near you and just have a listen to all your different options... oh, there is a great place which I tend to check for bargains on this kind of kit (http://www.englishaudio.co.uk/ have a used and on offer section and for example have a rotel pamp for 99 pounds atm) as for speakers, you might want to check out Dynaudio for speakers, as they produce a lovely soundstage, but you might not be able to get floorstanders in your price range, depending if your set on getting floorstanders or not... just a bit of crazyness going through my head tbh, but as its been quite some time im not that up to date anymore...some questions for you my good sir... speaker cables and interconnects? any plans? ...as I think these are really worth a listen: http://www.dynaudio.com/ (have a linkv )
I'm familiar with Dynaudio's high-end kit, a bit of cinema porn for you: http://www.zen32237.zen.co.uk/cinema/full.jpg Dynaudio Confidence series, C4s, C1s, Centre and BMS12-S sub, powered by some rather silly krell hardware They're defnitely not in budget, but I could attempt some sort of thievery Dynaudio isn't someone I considered, the C4s are £10k a pair, but I'll have to have a look at their bargain basement range I don't really have a specific budget for just the speakers, but 604s should be under £500 second hand, leaving quite a bit of flexilility on what I could put behind them (again, second hand) and maybe even coming in under budget. I'd consider 603s as well, its just a matter of whats around second hand I guess. Not put a great deal of thought into interconnects and cables yet, I'll go a bit more into that once I've picked out some bits. Any particular recommendations?
Well, once more you avoided the dreadfull question of what kind of music it is mainly going to be used for...I guess it is often a bit an overweighed question but it can help...with B&W's I would probably opt for a copper cable, but you might want to go in the direction of QED Silver's if you end up with too much bass (depending on how you feel on this subject!)...Interconnects I would need to have a quick peek on whats going on at the moment, but as you have just proved with the quick (really dark I must say) photo, the only way to go is up, so there is no point considering how much to spend on cables n interconnects, until we know whats it got to go with, and how much of a budget is left...Basically, I think you know enough about what your talking about anyway, so we will just have to see what you come up with! Keep us informed. ...All the same, I reckon this could just turn out as one PHAT system
Ah that wasn't intentional, oops. In a nutshell, the kind of music I listen to: everything Literally, everything. Predominantly rock, towards the heavier end, but a brief browse of my cds will reveal the likes of: Radiohead, Pantera, Cypress Hill, Frank Sinatra, Nothingface, Offspring, Muse, Nirvana, Vivaldi, Foo Fighters, Zero 7, Smashing Pumpkins, Natalie Cole, Chopin, Darkness, RHCP, Green Day, Queens of the Stoneage, Guns n Roses, Slipknot, Prodigy, Rage Against the Machine, Chicago, Disturbed, Marilyn Manson, Queen, Busta Rhymes, Fleetwood Mac, Orgy, Snoop Dogg. I could go on but you get the idea
No Worries, and good selection I might add /me goes to pop on smashing pumpkins! Erm, In that case especially with B&W speakers you might want to cop out on getting a really fat copper (multiple strands or whatever they are best described as) cable and try out some silver...I still have some QED lying about from back in the days, so once this whole show gets on the road, I could always send you some "samples" perhaps?!
if youve got any spare ends of silver I'd love to buy/borrow it once I get this lot sorted I'd hate to spend a small forune on silver just to find that I prefer the copper
The sound is all that really maters, If wax coated pubes sounded better I'd go ahead and use that (though, I dont think I'll be trying it) Would the effect of solid silver be the same as the silver coated but more so?
pure silver (6 9's) can sound too clean and harsh gold plated silver though is another matter i have experimented with gold on the signal and silver on the ground and vice versa. although the best i found was some wire i had made up at work (jewellers) which is a silver hollow with gold in the middle. this is then drawn smaller and smaller down to just under 1mm. so you have a silver wire with a gold core.
Your money will be MUCH better spent if focused on the hardware, rather than on cables. I would recommend spending no more than £50 on interconnects if your entire budget is £1000 (thats for 2 pairs of ICs, one stereo source into a preamp, and one stereo output to amp). It is true that a good quality interconnect is needed, but the gains vs expense become very slim after a point. As others have said, the best option for you is to buy just the 2 mains first, then add center and surrounds later when you want them. One thing to make sure of though, is that there is a center channel that is made to accompany the floorstanders you buy. It will be important to timbre match the center with your mains when the time comes around to create a full surround setup. Another option, if you have access to a woodworking shop, would be to make your own speakers. If you go with an established design, you can really get a LOT for your money. Much more than you could buy for the same money. I built THESE for ~$1000 Canadian or ~£500. There is no way I could get the kind of performance I get from these in a store bought model for the same price. I personally would prefer to get a good stereo block amp, and add a good stereo preamp vs getting an intergrated amp. That is personal preference though, as a good intergrated amp will do basically the same thing.
I agree, it seems to me like the discussion completely glossed over the amplifier and to some extent the speakers, then went into a discussion on interconnects.
that doesnt mean people arnt reccomending he spends all his money on cables it just how the discussion went.
Well I'm definitely not spending silly money on cables, I'll probably get something to get me by for now and then get something decent in the states. For now the £1000 is just the budget for speakers + amp. right, preamp+power amp vs integrated amp... I've not been able to find many decent stereo preamps that would fit in the budget when weighing up a power amp and speakers
Basics - Remmber to get a high end CD player, there's a reason they still cost £300+, its because DVD players dont produse nearly the same music quality. ------------------------ Music is ment to be played in stero (unless u buy an A-DVD but these are still pretty rare and cost abit.), Hence 2 channel amps designed specifcally for the task of repoducing music generally produce better music quality over the 2 channels than a AV recieve or surround amp does over 2 channels. However within your budget you should be able to get a high end Maratz AV reciever/suuround amp which will nullify this effect as they are just amazing quaity. ----------- Speaker cable, dont skimp out. There's a chap over on the AVforums who makes homemade soild silver speaker cable and interconnectors. The speaker cable around £10 a meter and the interconnectors around £100 each. I have taken these interconnectors to a store and said a friend gave them to me and i was looking for an equivilent for another component of my system.....the closet match they had cost £1,000 and still wasnt as good.....these cables are the best in the world. Nosie killers i find very handy also. These are either special plug sockets or power connectors for your amp/reciever that help to eliminate white noise. ------------------ Speakers, B&W are probably the highest end make currently in the world, but different speakers suit different tastes, the best thing u can do is goto a audio store and listen to some floorstanders to see what suits your needs best. then go find them cheaper online. --------------------- The AVforum.....go there, they will have everything you could ever possible need to know and they have agreements with hundreds of suppliers to suit your needs, there is NOWHERE better for audio information and equipment.
Stereo is the best way to have a soundstage end of. DVD-A is available in stereo and some players are stereo only. not sure what you mean here. mains filters, conditioners, emi, rfi, shorties etc etc? While b&w are no where near the highest end make around they do make some good speakers. But yes as you said go to a hifi shop. Do not order online. I would only order cheap cheap stuff or items which i know how they sound. Give them a call say how much you want to spend and then ask them what they have etc if they can setup a demo. Oh and by hifi shop i dont mean richersounds. Oh and as the original question goes. Get a stereo amp dont waste the money on an av amp now when you wont use it. I would say go for intergrated though. The benefits of different box solutions are only worthwhile on expensive kit. The cost of an extra case with seperates at this price point will negate any benefit in sound. One make i would reccomend looking into for second hand amps is Naim. You can buy a Nait 3r for £250-300ish which is a bargain. Then when you can afford you can have this amp turned into just a pre amp and then go for a seperate power amp. They also do 3 channel amps so you can make a 5.1 setup just by buying a 3 channel amp extra.
