Listening Rooms - The Low Frequencies. You're not talking about a million dollar "listening room" still, you're talking about a " listening room ", and i was talking about an average bed room or living room. So, lets talk about " listening rooms". Listening Rooms - The Low Frequencies : - The action of sound waves colliding and combining in the air is called acoustic interference, and this occurs in all rooms at all low frequencies - not just those related to the room's dimensions. The only thing that changes with frequency is where in the room the peaks and nulls occur. The principle is identical to how phaser and flanger effects work, except the comb filtering happens acoustically in the air. - The only way to get rid of these peaks and dips is to avoid, or at least reduce, the reflections that cause them. This is done by applying treatment that absorbs low frequencies to the corners, walls, and other surfaces so the surfaces do not reflect the waves back into the room (bass traps). Bass traps are also useful in studio recording rooms for the same reasons - to flatten the response of instruments captured by microphones and, with large studios, to improve the acoustics by reducing the low frequency reverb decay time which makes the music sound more clear, but doing this, usually increases the amount of bass produced by loudspeakers or musical instruments. When the cancellations caused by reflections are reduced, the most noticeable effect is increasing the bass level and making the low frequency response more uniform and more audible. - Adding a subwoofer will not fix the problem. While a subwoofer can be useful to compensate for "inadequate loudspeakers", it will not solve the problem of an irregular response caused by acoustic interference. In fact, a subwoofer often makes matters worse by hiding the real problem. - When you add bass trapps, you are making the walls less reflective at low frequencies, so sound that hits a wall or ceiling will be absorbed instead of reflected. The net result is exactly the same as if the wall was not there at all - or as if the wall was very far away - whatever does come back is greatly attenuated due to distance and, therefore, not loud enough to cause as much cancellation. - If you have SoundForge, WaveLab, or a similar audio editor program, it's simple to create sine wave files at different low frequencies for testing. Special CDs that contain various tones and "pink noise" suitable for room testing and analysis are also commonly available. To determine the severity of low frequency problems, play different sine waves one at a time through your monitors, and then slowly walk around the room. It will be very obvious at which frequencies the peaks and valleys occur, and where they cause the most harm. There's no point in playing frequencies below what your speakers can produce cleanly - I suggest 60 Hz, 80 Hz, 100 Hz, and so forth through maybe 200-300 Hz. - There are a number of ways to create a bass trap. The simplest and least expensive is to install a large amount of thick rigid fiberglass, spacing it well away from the wall or ceiling.Since bass builds up the most in the corners of a room, this is an ideal location for any bass trap. You can also go to www.realtraps.com a very good site in Acoustic Treatment. Hey Max, why don't you say something to us about Midrange and High Frequencies ?
edit: as it sounds like you guys are getting along now... ill take the moderating hat off although I dont think its necessary in this thread to go into quite so much depth, as I've already stated that room treatment isnt really an avenue i can go down at the moment (by all means start a new thread and go into all the depth you want, would be an interesting read)
By listening room I meant the room in which you are listening to the music. It is much quicker than saying "the living room, bedroom, or other enclosed space, where you happen to have your stereo equipment". This doesn't have to be an argument, I just want to discuss the steps to getting the most out of your audio equipment, for the least amount of money and headaches. I definately do not pretend to be a pro, but what I do know, I know from experience and research. There are many people out there who are more eloquent than I am. http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/RoomAcoustics-RivesAudio.html http://www.axiomaudio.com/roomacoustics.html http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/home/speakers_roomacoustics.html Those are a few good sites with pointers. They really give a good idea of the importance of room acoustics, if your goal is to shoot for great sound reproduction. Mister Tad, you mentioned earlier that you heard a distinct difference with a high mass speaker stand. The theroy behind this is directly related to room acoustics. The higher mass reduces resonance and vibration. Well imagine what else in the room has the same effect. If you are interested I will post links to some easy to make and good looking room treatments. I hope you enjoy your system, regardless of the approach you take.
absolutely, I'm willing to give it a go if its subtle, tasteful and most importantly, can pass the other half approval test # The room treatment I'm used to is silly great bass traps in the corners and bubbly foam shapes all over the place, as theyve all been in dedicated rooms (and with 6 digit systems to match )
I just want to say that i enjoy this audio debate here in the Forum, especially with Max and Mr.Tad. Contrary to some opinions about this Forum, i think the forum is more wide open to others subjects and opinons. After all, audio and image are key elements in computers technology. Rock on.
Behringer DEQ2496? TacT RCS (Room correction system)? Cello Pallete? EDIT: Fuelling the fire a little sure but there are such systems out there which can do amazing things to help tame uneven frequency response caused by the room, mostly operating in the digital domain (with appropriate reclocking to avoid adding additional jitter to the signal where possible) to correct the signal and as such quality loss is negligible.
EQ can help but only so much, and can't compensate for some things. A null in the response is a hole that cannot be filled. Mister Tad, what veneer finish did you get on your ProAc Response 1SC speakers? I like the Bird's eye maple.
I went for black ash, it matches everything considered ebony, but I decided that it wasnt worth it for the extra cost (£250 more) If it was something like the D15 (although, even without considering price, I preferred the 1SC to the D15 overall) I'd probably spring for ebony, as youre getting a whole lot more of it, but on a standmount I doubt I'd bother as it really doesn't make much of an impact. Loved the D38s, but they'll have to wait a while as theyre £5400 in ebony
I don't know about the others but the Behringer is a Killer. I don't understand why the homecinema proccesors lack a decent graphic or parametric tonecontrols. All the hardware is there but all reciever/prossecor bilders don't have a clue about soundproccesing and use a prefab DTS/DD chip. Wich must be cheap and lack any feathers. Hey Will, many tanx for the tips.
I was under the impression that these things, as well as being able to reduce the levels of specific frequencies, could also boost others to compensate for room suckouts or whatever? Obviously its not ideal, having to use any EQ at all, even these digital devices, but getting an acoustically perfect room costs thousands aside from any domestic constraints (She Who Must Be Obeyed), so its a question of compromise. To get a flat 'in room' frequency response you can make your attack from all angles - whilst room treatment works well, EQ has advantages over it, and vice versa. Just different ways to crack the same nut I guess
EQ is definately a great thing, no doubt about it! A null isn't an ordinary dip in the frequency response. I will try to explain simply... Let's say you have a null in your response at a certain frequency. This happens when a trough meets a peak, basically 180 degrees out of phase. let's just assign a numerical value to it for the sake of imagery, so the peak is a 5, and the trough, being 180 degrees out of phase, will be a -5. See how they cancel each other out? Now lets assume you use EQ to "boost" the dip. If you add "5" boost, the peak is a 10 and the trough would be a -10. The ystill cancel each other out. Now that is a very over simplified description, but is essentially what happens. So you can see how no amount of EQ will solve a null. Only moving your gear, or changing the acoustics of the room (in this case probably reflection points), will get rid of the null at the listening position. Changing reflection points will change where the interference occurs.
IMHO, i really don't belive that we should have a flat response within listening rooms. Music, in particular, consists mainly of transients. Thus if a standing wave in the room, causes say a loss of 10 dB at 100 Hz at the listening position and we apply a 10 dB boost at the speaker, then a brief but audible10 dB peak will be heard. It is not the frequency response of the speaker/room system that needs to be corrected but the transient response. Considering the correction of the transient response and what Will said about (She Who Must Be Obeyed) IMHO i think that the Behringer is a good, practical and cheap answer for a listenning room.
