For the record, I have been involved...although hardly knee deep in it. I've volunteered for a couple of charities, and I've come across people with mental health problems and also the local services that are supposed to be supporting them. The whole area scares me to **** because if some of these people had equivalent physical problems they wouldn't be let out of hospital. I've also had my own spell on Seroxat, for what it's worth, but I don't think either qualifies me as an expert. Anyway, it's worth noting that the OP wasn't calling anyone charlatans nor was the article he put up for discussion. The article asserts that there is a problem, which you agree with, but no-one so far has suggestion a solution. Yes, more resources would be useful, but the article suggests it's a problem with 'process' as much as anything else.
Directly suggested: - The problem is due to psychiatrists and psychologists "getting it wrong"; - Their science is not "real"; - They lack proper training/are incompetent.
"Getting it wrong"? Yes, he asked that question. What's wrong with that? Science is not real? No, he qualifies that be stating (correctly) that neuroscience and psychology are way behind conventional medicine in terms of our knowledge. Improper training and incompetent? Yes, he asks that too. He also suggest a shortage might be an issue. The article (and thus Yoda) ask if alternatively, there is a problem with the transition between the ward and the community. I'd say this was the symptom of the problem and not the problem itself - but it's certainly true there is one. I would have thought, as a supposed psychologist, you would have been able to be more objective in your argument. So far, I've seen a kneejerk reaction, with a twisting of other peoples words, and a completely subjective response. I would have thought, given you are on the 'inside', you would have taken this opportunity to explain what you could see of the problem, and more importantly, what should be done about it. So far you have haven't even taken a stab at offering a solution. My job isn't perfect, and my organisation could probably do with a shake-up; but if asked on a forum like this, I'd not waste my time explaining things away or covering my ass -I'd be shouting that if we were allowed to do X, Y & Z, we'd be able to crack the problem.
At the risk of sounding childish, I think you are doing a bit of word twisting. He was not asking: "Are they getting it wrong?" but "Why are they getting it wrong?". The assumption that they are is a foregone conclusion. "Pseudo"-science means (if I interpret the word "pseudo" correctly), "pretend" science. Not "science that is not as mature as other sciences". But as for neuroscience and psychology being behind conventional medicine... well, wait until you have chronic pain or a psychotic breakdown, and then see which delivers the goods for you. It's a bit like arguing that biology is lagging behind on physics... can you actually compare the two like that? But while we are on the subject of subjective responses: all I hear from you guys is how the system is getting it wrong, with the suggestion that this is because somehow NHS professionals are either not skilled, not aware, or indifferent (and you certainly seem to support that with the comment "supposed psychologist"): And do you think that we don't know? Do you think we are not trying to change any of this? I could indeed go on for hours on where the problems lie and what would need to be done about it, and precious little has to do with our clinical judgement. But the clinicians at the front line have little influence on those who hold the purse strings and purchase the services, or with the government which sets out health and social policy, or with society at large, or with the realities of real life. Although we certainly keep at it... Mental health problems are not just about something suddenly going "clunk" in the head. They are often the result of multiple problems often associated with poorly controllable biological factors, lifelong deprivation and/or abuse and neglect, and in the long term can lead to further biological consequences, deprivation and/or abuse and (self-)neglect. We have a society that creates many of the personality disorders, addicts, depressives and a fair number of psychotics, and is dismal at supporting people with such mental health problems. This is to do amongst others with poor parenting, 25% of all children (about 3.5 million) growing up below the poverty line in crime and drug-ridden sink estates, educated in struggling schools; with a judgemental society who still e.g. see the homeless and the addicted as scum and the mentally ill as stigmatised outcasts. I mean, in this same forum people complain about poverty and deprivation, drug addiction, crime, teenage pregnancy, children going off the rails at increasingly young age... don't you think these things are related? Don't you think they have implications for, like, mental health? Do you think that perchance the solution for these problems, anything that is beyond sticking plasters, might take a whole lot more than committed, conscientious and skilled individuals working in a poorly regulated NHS? Take a very simple health problem: smoking. Smoking is bad. The NHS spends a crapload of resources and effort on smoking related illness, and on helping people stop smoking. But do people want to stop? Visit the Smoking Ban thread for an answer to that question... Meanwhile, does the government channel all that tobacco tax income back into the NHS? No. They'd rather build some more Trident submarines, or wage war on Iraq for a whole host of complex reasons of their own. Does society want to change? No --see the smoking ban thread again. Do parents encourage their children not to smoke? No, chavs light up at age 10 --and yes, we find that it has interesting (and costly) genetic effects on their grandchildren's health... So in fifty years' time you'll get to ask the NHS what we are doing about all that diabetes and obesity that's going around, then. If a very basic, simple health problem like smoking is such an intractable problem for the NHS because 1. people don't want to stop; 2. the government will not channel the available money appropriately; 3. society resists change; 4. the parents aren't raising their children not to smoke; 5. there are unforeseen long-term consequences that will haunt us for generations, then just think how it works out for severe and enduring mental health problems... Me thinks that by ridiculously oversimplifying a complex problem and laying it square at the door of psychiatrists, psychologists (and no doubt, social workers), you are engaging in a bit of "pseudo-science" yourselves. You don't want to hear that life is difficult; you just want a perfect, quick, easy and cheap fix please. And when I suggest that things are just a bit more complicated, you accuse me of a "god complex", defensiveness and "covering my ass" (no subjective interpretation there, then?). Keep thinking in those thin, causal lines... (keep thinking in all-or-nothing terms too, while you're at it, and forget about the million or so people with mental health problems we do successfully help every day). I could post what I think would need to be changed, but that would be a very long post indeed involving changes in the government, economy, culture and society, right down to the attitudes and behaviour of the individual tax payer/citizen. There would not just be X, Y and Z but X1a, X1b, X1c... In fact, I'd probably start with A1a... And change will take centuries. So if you want the short simple quick solution: there is none (surprise, surprise). But if you want to really understand: join us. This Christmas, the homeless shelters will need a hand... Join MIND. Join SANE. Get involved. Help us make that change. As Ghandi said: "Be the change that you want to see in the world".
